Castrol Edge 0W-40 lost LL-01?

[BucDan]

Originally Posted by Mark963
I was in Walmart this weekend and the Castrol 0W-40 EUROPEAN FORMULA wasn't around.

But I noticed a 5W-40 U.S. for about the same price and it is LL-01 approved. It's "Made in U.S.A. from domestic and imported components". API SN, ACEA A3/B4, BMW Longlife-01, MB-Approved 229.3, Porsche A40 and VW 502 00/505 00.

MSDS:
Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated heavy paraffinic64742-54-7â¥25 - â¤50
Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated heavy paraffinic64742-54-7â¥25 - â¤50
Lubricating oils (petroleum), C15-30, hydrotreated neutral oil-based72623-86-0â¤10
Lubricating oils (petroleum), C20-50, hydrotreated neutral oil-based72623-87-1â¤10
Distillates (petroleum), solvent-refined heavy paraffinic64741-88-4â¤

I'm not sure that's as good as the old 0W40 European Formula.



Thinking they discontinued 0w40 in favor of 5w40?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by BucDan
Originally Posted by Mark963
I was in Walmart this weekend and the Castrol 0W-40 EUROPEAN FORMULA wasn't around.

But I noticed a 5W-40 U.S. for about the same price and it is LL-01 approved. It's "Made in U.S.A. from domestic and imported components". API SN, ACEA A3/B4, BMW Longlife-01, MB-Approved 229.3, Porsche A40 and VW 502 00/505 00.

MSDS:
Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated heavy paraffinic64742-54-7â¥25 - â¤50
Distillates (petroleum), hydrotreated heavy paraffinic64742-54-7â¥25 - â¤50
Lubricating oils (petroleum), C15-30, hydrotreated neutral oil-based72623-86-0â¤10
Lubricating oils (petroleum), C20-50, hydrotreated neutral oil-based72623-87-1â¤10
Distillates (petroleum), solvent-refined heavy paraffinic64741-88-4â¤

I'm not sure that's as good as the old 0W40 European Formula.



Thinking they discontinued 0w40 in favor of 5w40?


No.

 

[Mark963]

It is confusing to me that the 5W40, which looks inferior (the points previously mentioned plus no pour point and very thick at -35C) has the LL-01 rating and showed up at my Walmart in place of the European formula. While the European Formula lost the LL-01 rating. I thought part of GC was also that it was at least partly made of a group IV or V base, where anything in the US can be called synthetic with Group 3.

Has the 5W40 "American" oil always been LL-01 approved? I hadn't ran across it anywhere.

For me, not seeing the 0W40 at Walmart in 5 quart jugs means buying it some other way just doubled the price (or more) - not nearly as attractive.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Originally Posted by Mark963
It is confusing to me that the 5W40, which looks inferior (the points previously mentioned plus no pour point and very thick at -35C) has the LL-01 rating and showed up at my Walmart in place of the European formula. While the European Formula lost the LL-01 rating. I thought part of GC was also that it was at least partly made of a group IV or V base, where anything in the US can be called synthetic with Group 3.

Has the 5W40 "American" oil always been LL-01 approved? I hadn't ran across it anywhere.

For me, not seeing the 0W40 at Walmart in 5 quart jugs means buying it some other way just doubled the price (or more) - not nearly as attractive.


So just buy the Mobil. Or even the 5w40 Castrol, at the end of the day you nor the car will ever know the difference. Like is said around here a lot, do you need a twelve or fifteen foot ladder to get out of a ten foot hole?

 

[Mark963]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by Mark963
It is confusing to me that the 5W40, which looks inferior (the points previously mentioned plus no pour point and very thick at -35C) has the LL-01 rating and showed up at my Walmart in place of the European formula. While the European Formula lost the LL-01 rating. I thought part of GC was also that it was at least partly made of a group IV or V base, where anything in the US can be called synthetic with Group 3.

Has the 5W40 "American" oil always been LL-01 approved? I hadn't ran across it anywhere.

For me, not seeing the 0W40 at Walmart in 5 quart jugs means buying it some other way just doubled the price (or more) - not nearly as attractive.


So just buy the Mobil. Or even the 5w40 Castrol, at the end of the day you nor the car will ever know the difference. Like is said around here a lot, do you need a twelve or fifteen foot ladder to get out of a ten foot hole?


Well sure, I've often said for 11 months of year, most people could run anything randomly selected at Walmart and not know the difference. But this is an oil forum right?? Sorry for posting my thoughts.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Originally Posted by Mark963
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by Mark963
It is confusing to me that the 5W40, which looks inferior (the points previously mentioned plus no pour point and very thick at -35C) has the LL-01 rating and showed up at my Walmart in place of the European formula. While the European Formula lost the LL-01 rating. I thought part of GC was also that it was at least partly made of a group IV or V base, where anything in the US can be called synthetic with Group 3.

Has the 5W40 "American" oil always been LL-01 approved? I hadn't ran across it anywhere.

For me, not seeing the 0W40 at Walmart in 5 quart jugs means buying it some other way just doubled the price (or more) - not nearly as attractive.


So just buy the Mobil. Or even the 5w40 Castrol, at the end of the day you nor the car will ever know the difference. Like is said around here a lot, do you need a twelve or fifteen foot ladder to get out of a ten foot hole?


Well sure, I've often said for 11 months of year, most people could run anything randomly selected at Walmart and not know the difference. But this is an oil forum right?? Sorry for posting my thoughts.



We all overthink this stuff, for sure. Unless you start the car after it has been sitting at -30 overnight I wouldn't worry about absolutely needing a 0w. If you do face that scenario, try the Mobil, or even something like Total or Motul or Liqui-Moly from Amazon if you want to go wild. Also sometimes you can buy from Walmart online and have it shipped to your store if they don't carry it on the actual shelves.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Mark963
It is confusing to me that the 5W40, which looks inferior (the points previously mentioned plus no pour point and very thick at -35C) has the LL-01 rating and showed up at my Walmart in place of the European formula. While the European Formula lost the LL-01 rating. I thought part of GC was also that it was at least partly made of a group IV or V base, where anything in the US can be called synthetic with Group 3.

Has the 5W40 "American" oil always been LL-01 approved? I hadn't ran across it anywhere.

For me, not seeing the 0W40 at Walmart in 5 quart jugs means buying it some other way just doubled the price (or more) - not nearly as attractive.


LL-01 is being phased out on most 0w-xx lubes when they are being reformulated and may be phased out by many companies period if Mobil's behaviour is any indication of a trend. It's a very old cert at this juncture and so typically only "legacy" products like this 5w-40 continue to carry it.

And yes, this 5w-40 is an older lube than the 0w-40, and has always had LL-01 AFAIK.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Mark963
It is confusing to me that the 5W40, which looks inferior (the points previously mentioned plus no pour point and very thick at -35C) has the LL-01 rating and showed up at my Walmart in place of the European formula. While the European Formula lost the LL-01 rating. I thought part of GC was also that it was at least partly made of a group IV or V base, where anything in the US can be called synthetic with Group 3.

Has the 5W40 "American" oil always been LL-01 approved? I hadn't ran across it anywhere.

For me, not seeing the 0W40 at Walmart in 5 quart jugs means buying it some other way just doubled the price (or more) - not nearly as attractive.

I've lost track a bit in this thread, do you have a requirement for Longlife-01 oil? If not, then buy the Mobil 1 0W-40 product. What approval do you need?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Mark963
It is confusing to me that the 5W40, which looks inferior (the points previously mentioned plus no pour point and very thick at -35C) has the LL-01 rating and showed up at my Walmart in place of the European formula. While the European Formula lost the LL-01 rating. I thought part of GC was also that it was at least partly made of a group IV or V base, where anything in the US can be called synthetic with Group 3.

Has the 5W40 "American" oil always been LL-01 approved? I hadn't ran across it anywhere.

For me, not seeing the 0W40 at Walmart in 5 quart jugs means buying it some other way just doubled the price (or more) - not nearly as attractive.


LL-01 is being phased out on most 0w-xx lubes when they are being reformulated and may be phased out by many companies period if Mobil's behaviour is any indication of a trend. It's a very old cert at this juncture and so typically only "legacy" products like this 5w-40 continue to carry it.

And yes, this 5w-40 is an older lube than the 0w-40, and has always had LL-01 AFAIK.

I am starting to think that BMW updated LL01. It seems that all new Euro oils on the market in 5W40 and 5W30 grade are approved for LL01. It is 0W40 and 0W30 that are lost approvals. I am not sure what is about this. My wild guess (and this is strictly WILD GUESS) is that BMW limited Gr IV and V in LL01 due to potentioanl issues with solenoids. I read on some web sites like Turner etc. that oils with high % of Gr. V and IV are aggressive on solenoids. However, this is strictly my speculation or guessing.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Mark963
It is confusing to me that the 5W40, which looks inferior (the points previously mentioned plus no pour point and very thick at -35C) has the LL-01 rating and showed up at my Walmart in place of the European formula. While the European Formula lost the LL-01 rating. I thought part of GC was also that it was at least partly made of a group IV or V base, where anything in the US can be called synthetic with Group 3.

Has the 5W40 "American" oil always been LL-01 approved? I hadn't ran across it anywhere.

For me, not seeing the 0W40 at Walmart in 5 quart jugs means buying it some other way just doubled the price (or more) - not nearly as attractive.


LL-01 is being phased out on most 0w-xx lubes when they are being reformulated and may be phased out by many companies period if Mobil's behaviour is any indication of a trend. It's a very old cert at this juncture and so typically only "legacy" products like this 5w-40 continue to carry it.

And yes, this 5w-40 is an older lube than the 0w-40, and has always had LL-01 AFAIK.

I am starting to think that BMW updated LL01. It seems that all new Euro oils on the market in 5W40 and 5W30 grade are approved for LL01. It is 0W40 and 0W30 that are lost approvals. I am not sure what is about this. My wild guess (and this is strictly WILD GUESS) is that BMW limited Gr IV and V in LL01 due to potentioanl issues with solenoids. I read on some web sites like Turner etc. that oils with high % of Gr. V and IV are aggressive on solenoids. However, this is strictly my speculation or guessing.


If that was the case, Ravenol SSL 0w-40 wouldn't be LL-01, as it has more PAO than either of those two oils, but it is approved. I don't think anything happened to LL-01, I think it is just old and doesn't make sense to re-certify new formulas against it at this point. I think it's a financial decision and why we see old lubes like this 5w-40 still carrying it.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Mark963
It is confusing to me that the 5W40, which looks inferior (the points previously mentioned plus no pour point and very thick at -35C) has the LL-01 rating and showed up at my Walmart in place of the European formula. While the European Formula lost the LL-01 rating. I thought part of GC was also that it was at least partly made of a group IV or V base, where anything in the US can be called synthetic with Group 3.

Has the 5W40 "American" oil always been LL-01 approved? I hadn't ran across it anywhere.

For me, not seeing the 0W40 at Walmart in 5 quart jugs means buying it some other way just doubled the price (or more) - not nearly as attractive.


LL-01 is being phased out on most 0w-xx lubes when they are being reformulated and may be phased out by many companies period if Mobil's behaviour is any indication of a trend. It's a very old cert at this juncture and so typically only "legacy" products like this 5w-40 continue to carry it.

And yes, this 5w-40 is an older lube than the 0w-40, and has always had LL-01 AFAIK.

I am starting to think that BMW updated LL01. It seems that all new Euro oils on the market in 5W40 and 5W30 grade are approved for LL01. It is 0W40 and 0W30 that are lost approvals. I am not sure what is about this. My wild guess (and this is strictly WILD GUESS) is that BMW limited Gr IV and V in LL01 due to potentioanl issues with solenoids. I read on some web sites like Turner etc. that oils with high % of Gr. V and IV are aggressive on solenoids. However, this is strictly my speculation or guessing.


If that was the case, Ravenol SSL 0w-40 wouldn't be LL-01, as it has more PAO than either of those two oils, but it is approved. I don't think anything happened to LL-01, I think it is just old and doesn't make sense to re-certify new formulas against it at this point. I think it's a financial decision and why we see old lubes like this 5w-40 still carrying it.

That makes sense for Ravenol, but then Castrol 5W40 has just been reformulated, and still has LL01. That s confusing part. It does not even match older European 5W40 formula as that one had KV 13.5.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by edyvw

That makes sense for Ravenol, but then Castrol 5W40 has just been reformulated, and still has LL01. That s confusing part. It does not even match older European 5W40 formula as that one had KV 13.5.


13.9 vs 14.1, same VI of 174, they may have just shifted the "typical" values a tad.

Interestingly, the latest (January 2020) Global version doesn't have LL-01, whilst the same product number, earlier PDS showed it. So we may see it disappear on the 5w-40's too.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by edyvw

That makes sense for Ravenol, but then Castrol 5W40 has just been reformulated, and still has LL01. That s confusing part. It does not even match older European 5W40 formula as that one had KV 13.5.


13.9 vs 14.1, same VI of 174, they may have just shifted the "typical" values a tad.

Interestingly, the latest (January 2020) Global version doesn't have LL-01, whilst the same product number, earlier PDS showed it. So we may see it disappear on the 5w-40's too.

LOL. We will end up with Extra Virgin Olive Oil in that Edge 5W40 in the end.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by edyvw

That makes sense for Ravenol, but then Castrol 5W40 has just been reformulated, and still has LL01. That s confusing part. It does not even match older European 5W40 formula as that one had KV 13.5.


13.9 vs 14.1, same VI of 174, they may have just shifted the "typical" values a tad.

Interestingly, the latest (January 2020) Global version doesn't have LL-01, whilst the same product number, earlier PDS showed it. So we may see it disappear on the 5w-40's too.

LOL. We will end up with Extra Virgin Olive Oil in that Edge 5W40 in the end.


It still holds other stringent euro specs - hardly olive oil.

 

[edyvw]

Quote
It still holds other stringent euro specs - hardly olive oil.

I was referring to these confusing pds's.
On serious note, it is still mediocre oil. Problem with that Edge is that for same money there are better oils, with same specs.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

It doesn't even have 502/505 anymore?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Quote
It still holds other stringent euro specs - hardly olive oil.

I was referring to these confusing pds's.
On serious note, it is still mediocre oil. Problem with that Edge is that for same money there are better oils, with same specs.


For the life of me I can't figure out why BMW hasn't made an announcement regarding the use of LL04 in N.A. gassers.

 

[Mark963]

This is in the spec for the "Edge 5W40 U.S." - which I think is different than just "Edge 5W40".

 

[kschachn]

So what specification or approval are you seeking for your car?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Mark963
This is in the spec for the "Edge 5W40 U.S." - which I think is different than just "Edge 5W40".

Yes, and if you look at the same PDS for the previous version of the product the visc changed ever so slightly but VI is the same so I'd wager they just updated the "typical properties" and this is the same formulation, which is why it continues to wear the same approvals. The newer PDS I posted above is a "Global" formulation that used to be LL-01 but no longer is.