Castrol Edge 0W-40 lost LL-01?

Originally Posted by Garak
It wouldn't be a surprise. How many vehicles is BMW selling now (or that are still under warranty) that expressly call for LL-01 only? I can't see the current M1 0w-40, Castrol 0w-30 A3/B4, or Castro 0w-40 A3/B4 somehow being unsuitable all of sudden for a 10 year old BMW.


Our Mini calls for LL-01 (or the FE variant) and it's still under warranty.

However, I agree with you last sentence. I'm sensing a trend in fewer oils carrying BMW LL approval. Perhaps oil blenders have given up dealing with BMW.
 
Originally Posted by Garak
It wouldn't be a surprise. How many vehicles is BMW selling now (or that are still under warranty) that expressly call for LL-01 only? I can't see the current M1 0w-40, Castrol 0w-30 A3/B4, or Castro 0w-40 A3/B4 somehow being unsuitable all of sudden for a 10 year old BMW.


-None. It has been this way in the US since the N-series engines came out around 2006

Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted by Garak
It wouldn't be a surprise. How many vehicles is BMW selling now (or that are still under warranty) that expressly call for LL-01 only? I can't see the current M1 0w-40, Castrol 0w-30 A3/B4, or Castro 0w-40 A3/B4 somehow being unsuitable all of sudden for a 10 year old BMW.


Our Mini calls for LL-01 (or the FE variant) and it's still under warranty.

However, I agree with you last sentence. I'm sensing a trend in fewer oils carrying BMW LL approval. Perhaps oil blenders have given up dealing with BMW.


-Yep. I suspect they're waiting for BMW to settle on a weight (20w/30w) and of course the B-series engines which can run a 20w are now coming off lease and out of the "free scheduled maintenance" period. BMW went bonkers with the certs for example here's what you can run in the US for the current B-series engines: LL01, LL01FE, LL04, LL12FE, LL14FE, LL17FE. Europe is worse because of the GPF (Gas Particulate Filters) the Europeans are limited to LL04/LL12FE/LL17FE for all new BMWs.

For the life of me I can't figure out why BMW hasn't moved the US to ACEA Cx.
 
Last edited:
I know it's somewhat frowned upon, but if the oil producers are going to not include LL-01 on their products, it'd be nice if they'd go with the "recommended for" in place of an actual approval. I've never liked it that BMW changed requirements for LL-01, years after initially publishing it. I always figured that the "01" was for when the spec was issued - if it is changed, then update the requirement AND the level (like LL-04). My owner's manual lists LL-98 as the requirement, being a 1999 5-series, and since I've owned it (starting in 2005) I've always just stuck with an LL-01 oil. Because of the age of the car, the limited number of miles it sees between OCs and I never push the interval beyond 7K miles, it probably isn't a big deal. I'll still use a higher HT/HS oil, more in line with Mercedes spec or similar.
 
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Our Mini calls for LL-01 (or the FE variant) and it's still under warranty.

At least it does give you another option. Does it also list LL-04 as an option?

I agree with what Touring5 states. It would be nice if there were "Recommended For" on some of the products. I know what Mobil, Castrol, Pennzoil, and Petro-Canada mean when they say that.
 
Originally Posted by Garak
I was just wondering. I hadn't looked at a BMW manual for a very long time.


Our 2012 Mini had the same OM rules, LL-01 or LL-01 FE. Same engine generation (Prince engine).
 
Pennzoil 5w-40 A3/B4 time then, I guess.
wink.gif
Of course, I find it hard to believe that M1 0w-40, Castrol 0w-40 A3/B4, or Castrol 0W-30 A3/B4 cannot do the job. Is Castrol 5w-30 A3/B4 (hard to find anyhow) still approved to LL-01?
 
Originally Posted by Garak
Pennzoil 5w-40 A3/B4 time then, I guess.
wink.gif
Of course, I find it hard to believe that M1 0w-40, Castrol 0w-40 A3/B4, or Castrol 0W-30 A3/B4 cannot do the job. Is Castrol 5w-30 A3/B4 (hard to find anyhow) still approved to LL-01?


No PP Euro 5W-30 A3/B4 here in the states. Only the C3 version. And the castrol 5W-30 is easy to find online. About $35 a jug if I recall, and still LL-01 approved (for now).
 
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted by Garak
Does it also list LL-04 as an option?


Nope.



You do know that LL04 is an option right? LL04 is just a C3 ver of LL01. Just maybe not for 15k miles but you could easily run it 5k.
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
You do know that LL04 is an option right? LL04 is just a C3 ver of LL01. Just maybe not for 15k miles but you could easily run it 5k.


Well, I wouldn't say it's an option from a warranty standpoint, but you're right, LL-04 is identical to LL-01 with the only difference being that the oil must be C3 spec'd instead of A3/B4. LL-01 and LL-04 are the same specification from an engine testing standpoint.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Nothing! BMW is moving all engines to LL04 or fuel efficient specifications.


Any idea on the "official" transition date?
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by edyvw
Nothing! BMW is moving all engines to LL04 or fuel efficient specifications.


Any idea on the "official" transition date?

I do not think BMW is testing LL01 anymore. Castrol 0W40 went through compound update and needed recertification.
Their 0W30 version in Europe went through update too, but got LL04.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
I do not think BMW is testing LL01 anymore. Castrol 0W40 went through compound update and needed recertification.
Their 0W30 version in Europe went through update too, but got LL04.


Pennzoil (Shell) just reformulated PP Euro 5W-40 and it maintained LL-01 approval. Although I haven't yet seen that product in the wild, yet.
 
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted by edyvw
I do not think BMW is testing LL01 anymore. Castrol 0W40 went through compound update and needed recertification.
Their 0W30 version in Europe went through update too, but got LL04.


Pennzoil (Shell) just reformulated PP Euro 5W-40 and it maintained LL-01 approval. Although I haven't yet seen that product in the wild, yet.


Given they are now the supplier for BMW, that really shouldn't surprise anyone.
 
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted by Garak
Pennzoil 5w-40 A3/B4 time then, I guess.
wink.gif
Of course, I find it hard to believe that M1 0w-40, Castrol 0w-40 A3/B4, or Castrol 0W-30 A3/B4 cannot do the job. Is Castrol 5w-30 A3/B4 (hard to find anyhow) still approved to LL-01?


No PP Euro 5W-30 A3/B4 here in the states. Only the C3 version. And the castrol 5W-30 is easy to find online. About $35 a jug if I recall, and still LL-01 approved (for now).

No, just the 5w-40. There is a 5w-30 A3/B4 Pennzoil sheet, but that really doesn't exist. There is a Shell A3/B4 5w-30 in Europe with the exact same specs. I suspect a sheet got translated for the Pennzoil lineup when it really didn't need to be translated.

Up here, the Castrol 5w-30 A3/B4 in my experience has the same problem as the 0w-30 A3/B4 - one litre bottles and the corresponding price penalty. I have seen the Pennzoil 5w-40 A3/B4 with the LL-01 on shelves.
 
Low sulphur gasoline should allow use of LL-04 without issues.
If you race or drive your BMW hard in a hot climate, use the thick LL-04 or get an LL-01 5w40 that is still available.
If you drive normally, your BMW will be great on LL-01FE.
Frankly, 229.5/A40/502 is plenty for any high-saps gasoline engines who need HTHS around 3.5.
 
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted by edyvw
I do not think BMW is testing LL01 anymore. Castrol 0W40 went through compound update and needed recertification.
Their 0W30 version in Europe went through update too, but got LL04.


Pennzoil (Shell) just reformulated PP Euro 5W-40 and it maintained LL-01 approval. Although I haven't yet seen that product in the wild, yet.

I think reason why Mobil1 and Castrol did this is that in EU and probably soon in the US, BMW will start recommending LL04 in older engines. In newer engines in Europe LL04 is still recommended, while in the US BMW as well as others are chasing CAFE with thiner oils.
 
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