Auto engine start/stop and effects on engine wear?

[oil_film_movies]

Wondering if a hydraulic accumulator in the oil circuit might be nice to keep some oil flowing at stoplights for a few seconds at least.
Yet engines don't seem to care. Is there extra Fe ppm in start-stop UOAs? Hybrids typically look great.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I'd be concerned with ring gear wear on the flex plate / flywheel.

 

[blupupher]

I actually test drove a new F150 with the start/stop at the autoshow. I had a lot of questions about it.
As mentioned above, there are set parameters for it to even start to activate.
I know on the F150, it defaulted to on, with an "off" switch on the dash above the radio (but again would be on the next time you started it manually). There was no way to have it default to off (I am sure that there will be some type of workaround for it though once released).
Engine must be up to temp.
outdoor temp at a certain temp (don't remember what exactly, want to say above freezing?)
If A/C on Max, it will not activate, and vehicle will restart automatically if stopped for a long time and HVAC temp gets too far out of set temp range.

I know increased wear (on engine and components) from more frequent starts is a concern I have. By the time I get a vehicle with this feature, it will have been out for a while and hopefully all the bugs worked out (or I will just turn it off).

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: blupupher


I know increased wear (on engine and components) from more frequent starts is a concern I have. By the time I get a vehicle with this feature, it will have been out for a while and hopefully all the bugs worked out (or I will just turn it off).


I'm with you. I probably won't be buying anything new for a few more years. Hopefully they don't make it so you can't turn it off.

 

[Rand]

My 2017 cherokee trailhawk 3.2 has it.

I usually turn it off.

It wont activate until the engine is warm usually over 160f.. although occasionally it shuts off at 135f at a light(not sure why).

It always defaults to on but a button press will turn it off.

I usually turn it off because it is terrible when going through stop signs.

If I am coming up on a light where I will be sitting 2-3min I'll turn it back on.

The vehicle is equipped with a bigger battery and a high speed starter.. it will restart and be rolling in under half a second.

Overall id say its an ok feature I just wish it defaulted to current state instead of resetting to on everytime you start the car.

The biggest failure is there is no way for it to tell when you are parking in your garage(shuts off then restarts when you put it into park), pulling out into traffic, or stopping at stopsigns.

The basic idea is fine esp. for longer stoplights.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: Rand
Overall id say its an ok feature I just wish it defaulted to current state instead of resetting to on everytime you start the car.

EPA CAFE requirements won't let them default it to off. If the car maker uses start/stop to get their MPG rating, then they must strongly encourage car buyers to actually use it in the real world too.

Originally Posted By: Rand
The biggest failure is there is no way for it to tell when you are parking in your garage(shuts off then restarts when you put it into park), pulling out into traffic, or stopping at stopsigns.
Hybrids have had this problem for years. People sometimes forget to turn off their cars since they don't hear an engine idling in their garage. Then the hybrid or start/stop runs once in a while, adding pollutants to the garage and overhead bedrooms. Car makers may have to add a GPS "home detection" ability or use a proximity digital box mounted in your garage to detect when you're home.

 

[WyrTwister]

Glad our newest car does not have it . I suspect it is all smoke and mirrors to help pacify federal fuel mileage regulations . In reality , a solution in search of a problem .

If it causes future problems with the owners , neither the feds or the car companies ( car will probably be out of warranty by the time problems arise ) seem to care . :-(

God bless
Wyr

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
Glad our newest car does not have it . I suspect it is all smoke and mirrors to help pacify federal fuel mileage regulations . In reality , a solution in search of a problem .

Start stop cuts wasted gasoline down a lot in city cycles, also pollution. Do you not care about MPG or pollution? You're not alone, many people don't. Tragedy of the masses.
MPG benefits by about 7% or so depending on drive cycles.

 

[roadrunner1]

I own an F150 with the 2.7 and think the start/stop feature is helpful in saving fuel during in town commuting. Ford doesn't use the starter to re-start instead leaves a piston at TDC at stop, then sends an electric charge to the alternator at re-start st give the 2.7 a spin. In the Ford design there is no additional wear on the starter motor, I am not aware how other companies accomplish the start/stop.

I did quite a bit of research on this before we purchased and the start/stop is nothing to be afraid of as its across the entire F150 lineup for MY 2017. I would think the additional wear internally would be minimal at best. I just changed the oil in the 2.7 and sent a sample in, I will post when I get the results. I am curious myself on following the IOLM, as it takes it out to near 10,000 mi. but my other Ford vehicles the IOLM is very conservative as all samples have come back stellar.

 

[VNTS]

Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
I think that it would be a good idea as long as it only was activated when the engine is warm, it' can't be good for the engine to be constantly shut off and started again in cold temps, also warm up i imagine would take much longer.


These systems do not activate for several reasons, on the Acura system, all of these will turn the system off:

-engine not up to operating temp
-very cold temps
-A/C on/defrost on
-battery low on charge
-drivers seat belt not being used (this one surprised me)

There are actually about 12 different conditions in the data list that will prevent the system for activating. Pretty much has to be ideal conditions to activate, which for here in Ottawa, only happens in the spring/fall. We get lots of complaints about the system "not working" in the winter, and in the summer when it gets hot.

If the engine is warm, you are not doing any extra harm to the engine by shutting it off for 10-30 s are restarting, all critical components are well lubricated. The only thing these systems is hard on is the battery and starter motor. On our cars with start/stop, Acura uses a larger capacity AGM battery, so would not really worry about it.


Do they spec a better starter verus prior years without start/stop?

 

[Hyrde]

This EU oil is supposed to be "clingy", but I don't know if it's better than other synthetics. It's available in several grades and specs.

 

[SilverSnake]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: Rand
Overall id say its an ok feature I just wish it defaulted to current state instead of resetting to on everytime you start the car.

EPA CAFE requirements won't let them default it to off. If the car maker uses start/stop to get their MPG rating, then they must strongly encourage car buyers to actually use it in the real world too.


Our new 2017 BMW 330i with the system defaults to off. I made sure that was the case before we even ordered the car.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
I own an F150 with the 2.7 and think the start/stop feature is helpful in saving fuel during in town commuting. Ford doesn't use the starter to re-start instead leaves a piston at TDC at stop, then sends an electric charge to the alternator at re-start st give the 2.7 a spin. In the Ford design there is no additional wear on the starter motor, I am not aware how other companies accomplish the start/stop.

I did quite a bit of research on this before we purchased and the start/stop is nothing to be afraid of as its across the entire F150 lineup for MY 2017. I would think the additional wear internally would be minimal at best. I just changed the oil in the 2.7 and sent a sample in, I will post when I get the results. I am curious myself on following the IOLM, as it takes it out to near 10,000 mi. but my other Ford vehicles the IOLM is very conservative as all samples have come back stellar.


I didn't know they used the alternator on those. The other systems use the starter - can hear them spin over real quick at stoplights.

 

[FlyPenFly]

Probably useful to especially use Ceratec in a start stop vehicle.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Our new 2017 BMW 330i with the system defaults to off. I made sure that was the case before we even ordered the car.

Then the EPA doesn't give BMW the CAFE credits for start-stop in that case. Grundler of the EPA in 2015 mentioned that in a presentation for the SAE he did. Consumer uses it, or lose credits.

 

[nobb]

I believe start stop systems are typically rated around 300,000 cycles whereas your standard car starter might be 30,000 cycles. 300,000 sounds like alot, but in really bad rush hour cities I could see the system operating 100+ times a day which really adds up. The associated thermal stresses from these cycles can't be good for components in the long term. What happens to the various rubbers/gaskets, and etc... long term?

 

[PimTac]

How do these systems fare in stop and go traffic? Imagine being on the freeway for an hour or so in stop and go mode. That off switch would be the first button I push.

 

[Matt_V]

I changed out the oil in the Escape today to a Mobil1 synthetic since it's the most easily accessibly at my work. Motorcraft FL-910S filter was used. Build date was June of 2016 and it had been sitting on the lot until I picked it up this past week. So the oil was almost at it's one year mark.

I'm wondering if Liqui-Moly anti-friction (mos2) could help make the start/stop function a smoother transition. I'd be worried about using it in a turbo engine though or even a brand new engine for that matter. Am I wrong in that thinking?

 

[zoli]

I am affected with 2 cars start/stop systems:

- my wife's Renault 1.2 TCe Energy (Turbo I4) SUV only for city driving: the system activates itself very rare due to not fully warmed up engine temperature, or too cold or too hot outside. Requested oil: Elf 5W40 synthetic blend A3/B4
- 1.6 Turbo diesel (I4, from the cheating series) VW engine for long distances: it activates itself also very rare (because no reasons on highways), but very annoying in the traffic jam. Oil recommendation: Shell Helix Ultra 0W30 C2/C3 synthetic.

Only info against this feature from technicians: start/stop will shorten the lifetime of dual-mass flywheel.

 

[zoli]

Top quality oil perfect for the intended application + oil additives = waste of money.