Audi - better than Benz and BMW? Why

[Mr Nice]

Affluent folks that buy a new Audi, BMW or Benz don't keep them long enough to deal with the problems 4-5 years down the road.

It's the people buying them used with no warranty that find out just how expensive these German vehicles are to repair.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
If those are such great cars why don't they have a 10 year 100K warranty like Hyundai?


That's a horrible metric to use. But to follow your logic, Benz offers a 4/50k standard warranty on their cars whereas most other car companies are just 3/36.

Hyundai had to offer their 10/100k because their cars were so bad that no one was buying them. Then they got better. They had problems like the exhaust manifold rusting out. That doesn't really happen on any other cars as they usually have enough metal so that even if it does rust, you don't end up with holes.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Affluent folks that buy new Audi, BMW or Benz don't keep them long enough to deal with the problems 4-5 years down the road.

It's the people buying them used with no warranty that find out just how expensive these German vehicles are to repair.

Yup. Close to 70% of all new BMW, MB, and Audis are leased. Long term reliability is just not a factor unless you are the remaining 30% and plan to keep it long term or buy used.

 

[02SE]

Having worked on them back in the day, and having friends that still do, the three are about equal, reliability wise. I've owned all three makes, and have a BMW currently. My advice is to own them under warranty, or have the ability to fix them yourself, or the willingness to pay others to fix them.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Yup. Close to 70% of all new BMW, MB, and Audis are leased. Long term reliability is just not a factor unless you are the remaining 30% and plan to keep it long term or buy used.


If you buy a RWD 2 Series or 3 Series you will usually be in good shape- especially if you have access to a good indie shop or a good dealer(I have both). A V8 or V12(especially with twin turbos) and AWD can be an expensive proposition.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Affluent folks that buy new Audi, BMW or Benz don't keep them long enough to deal with the problems 4-5 years down the road.

It's the people buying them used with no warranty that find out just how expensive these German vehicles are to repair.

Yup. Close to 70% of all new BMW, MB, and Audis are leased. Long term reliability is just not a factor unless you are the remaining 30% and plan to keep it long term or buy used.


Got a couple of them. They're not that bad. The worse part is probably the tires, you don't get 18 inch tires that last 80k like you can on a 16, they're only good for 30-40k. They're both out of warranty and I don't take it to the dealer, either DIY or a cheap indy. Had the indy do the brakes recently, same price as my other car, $50 for labor to change rotors, pads and flush the fluid.

 

[PimTac]

Just to add; considering where Audi/VW have gone through these past few years, I would think they are doing their best to improve their product lines.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Got a couple of them. They're not that bad. The worse part is probably the tires, you don't get 18 inch tires that last 80k like you can on a 16, they're only good for 30-40k. They're both out of warranty and I don't take it to the dealer, either DIY or a cheap indy. Had the indy do the brakes recently, same price as my other car, $50 for labor to change rotors, pads and flush the fluid.

Yes, regular maintenance cost ins't bad. But when electrical/electronics stuff starts going, it can be pricey to fix. At this point I've stopped caring on my old 530i as I don't feel like dumping money into a 16-year-old car, but driver and passenger seat backrest adjustment no longer works, sunroof no longer works, remote door locks don't work. I mean, these things can go bad on any 16-year-old-car, it's just that it's probably more costly to get that fixed on a BMW than on a Chevy. No issues with drivetrain though.

Wife's 2008 C300 4matic was pretty bad though. Had we not had an extended warranty on it, we would have had to pay for a new transmission when the AWD transfer case went bad at 60K miles. The nav/entertainment system had to be replaced, and so did a bunch of other computers/modules and sensors. It was a sporty driving little car though. If it had a manual trans, I wouldn't have minded owning one. Just stay away from first model year, like you noted.

 

[fredly]

German cars are vastly overpriced, impossible to work on yourself, and support the German economy. Why support the German economy unless you are living in Germany? They are built as cheaply as possible, just like everybody else does. The only "good" German cars are sold in Germany/EU only, and not to the U.S. Old habits die hard, and the Auto Union will soon envelop all German car manufacturing. AUdi.

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Originally Posted By: 2008wrx
I am not trying to troll. Just want to read constructive reviews and opinions. Now once i open my facebook; first thing Audi advertisement (2018 A4) blah blah blah...

Is the new Audi really that impressive? The interior looks very focus to details? I am not the type of person lets find out by going to a Audi dealer and mess around and test drive and say "let me think about it, bye" ...

Can Audi really beat BMW's driving characters? Can Audi really match with BENZ reliability?

Nowadays, Audi can easily cost more than a BMW and getting close to a BENZ or more....

Why are you buying a Audi?


If those are such great cars why don't they have a 10 year 100K warranty like Hyundai?


Does Hyundai have a 12 year warranty on the body against corrosion?

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Got a couple of them. They're not that bad. The worse part is probably the tires, you don't get 18 inch tires that last 80k like you can on a 16, they're only good for 30-40k. They're both out of warranty and I don't take it to the dealer, either DIY or a cheap indy. Had the indy do the brakes recently, same price as my other car, $50 for labor to change rotors, pads and flush the fluid.

Yes, regular maintenance cost ins't bad. But when electrical/electronics stuff starts going, it can be pricey to fix. At this point I've stopped caring on my old 530i as I don't feel like dumping money into a 16-year-old car, but driver and passenger seat backrest adjustment no longer works, sunroof no longer works, remote door locks don't work. I mean, these things can go bad on any 16-year-old-car, it's just that it's probably more costly to get that fixed on a BMW than on a Chevy. No issues with drivetrain though.

Wife's 2008 C300 4matic was pretty bad though. Had we not had an extended warranty on it, we would have had to pay for a new transmission when the AWD transfer case went bad at 60K miles. The nav/entertainment system had to be replaced, and so did a bunch of other computers/modules and sensors. It was a sporty driving little car though. If it had a manual trans, I wouldn't have minded owning one. Just stay away from first model year, like you noted.



BMW is known for their electrical problems. My pano roof is fine, but they're also known for problems. Just haven't had that happen yet. Just because you read about a problem doesn't mean it happens to everyone. I have the parking sensors also and they're also known that a sensor may go bad, but still hasn't happened yet.

The Nav/Comand going out is also a known problem, but you can either send it out to be repaired or narrow it down to a defective module like bluetooth, cd player, satellite radio etc and just bypass it with a fiber optic bypass loop. When they're older, you can get used parts on eBay and it's not that bad.

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: fredly
German cars are vastly overpriced, impossible to work on yourself, and support the German economy. Why support the German economy unless you are living in Germany? They are built as cheaply as possible, just like everybody else does. The only "good" German cars are sold in Germany/EU only, and not to the U.S. Old habits die hard, and the Auto Union will soon envelop all German car manufacturing. AUdi.


All cars are like that now, Germans are no different. There is a reason why most of the techs here at Acura drive BMWs, myself included. They are actually quite easy and cheap to work on. I know many techs at other dealers, and I would NEVER own an Audi or MB.

 

[chrisri]

My friend bought 2017 new few months back. 2.0 tdi, DSG, 190 IIRC. S line, FWD, no leather- he prefers cloth. Before he tried 3 series, C class and Giulia.

His reasoning for choosing Audi was that the A4 is the latest of the Germans and the Alfa didn't have as much as gadgets as the Audi- he's a gadget geek.

Personally, Audi is the least interesting saloon for me but he is into latest tech and this is where VAG delivers. At least with the latest chassis and elongated wheelbase Audi doesn't look odd as the older ones. Dynamics are better too, but still not in the Alfa/BMW league.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: fredly
German cars are vastly overpriced, impossible to work on yourself, and support the German economy. Why support the German economy unless you are living in Germany? They are built as cheaply as possible, just like everybody else does. The only "good" German cars are sold in Germany/EU only, and not to the U.S. Old habits die hard, and the Auto Union will soon envelop all German car manufacturing. AUdi.


All I can say, is:
Deutschland über alles!

 

[Gebo]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Quote:
Can Audi really match with BENZ reliability?

LOL! Why would they want to? Benz doesn't have particularly good reliability these days.


Depends what you're comparing them to.

I'm just saying that if I was Audi, I would try to aim higher.

Quote:
Audi historically has been the worse of the 3 German makes but they've all been getting better lately.

Depends on the year. For 2016, it looks like Audi has higher marks than BMW and MB:
http://www.jdpower.com/cars/study/2016-Vehicle-Dependability-Study/843ENG/Compact-Premium-Car/1120

For 2017, it seems MB is higher:
http://www.jdpower.com/cars/study/2017-Vehicle-Dependability-Study/1882ENG/Compact-Premium-Car/1120

MB is pretty far down this list:
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reli...-they-stack-up/

In my experience, all 3 are about just as bad. If you are buying a German luxury car for its reliability, I think you are buying it for the wrong reasons.



I agree with the very last sentence. +1

"If you are buying a German luxury car for its reliability, I think you are buying it for the wrong reasons."

 

[GON]

I have a 2008 BMW 335i coupe and a 2006 MB S430 4matic in the driveway. Both are very reliable and a pleasure to drive. The 335i is a great ride for a Sunday morning cruise, the S430 is a awesome commuter vehicle, so comfortable and confident. I maintain the S430, very easy to work on as long as you invest in the MB diagnostic computer called SD Connect STAR. Funny, the S430s (W220s) are bad mouthed for being unreliable- I have found the S430 very reliable and inexpensive to self maintain.

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: GON
I have a 2008 BMW 335i coupe .... Both are very reliable


Really?

 

[raaizin]

Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
I bought mine because I think they are solid vehicles with excellent ergonomic interiors. I have a BMW as well and prefer the Audi.


I have both as well, over last 8-10 years the audi has cost me a fraction of the BMW to maintain. BMW has too many common failure points. Alot of opinions on them from folks who have never owned one never mind all three of the germans. It will cost you a little more but much better driving car. My audi has been bullitproof in 11 years 135k miles. My bluetooth module failed, 1 coil pack, and a hydraulic cam adjuster . Besides tires and brakes which I did myself I maybe spent 4k, hardly a money pit after 11 years and tires were probably 2k dollars(two repalcement sets) I do my own oil changes and brake replacement

 

[Mr Nice]

These German vehicles were never intended for people who can't afford to repair them.
If someone complains its too expensive to repair their_____ they can't afford it.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
These German vehicles were never intended for people who can't afford to repair them.

It's not that they weren't "intended for people who can't afford to repair them." It's just the specific market conditions here in the US. We don't have as many qualified shops that know how to properly work on them. And those that do, charge for it accordingly. Plus there is this notion that "if someone owns a German car, he must be loaded, so it's OK to charge him more."

Now in Europe, it's kind of the opposite. German cars are the domestics and most shops can work on them, which makes it more reasonable (from a cost perspective) to keep them on the road. On the other hand, Japanese and American cars cost more to repair over there, and are also more expensive to buy because of import duties.