So if an oil meets the 229.5 spec, are we wasting our money buying a more expensive product?
Are all 229.5 Oils the same?
- Thread starter FranklinJL
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They all meet the minimum performance requirements for the specification. So technically we should all buy the cheapest product which meets the specification.
However, sites like BITOG exist in part to try to find out which oils exceed the performance requirements of the specification. It's more of a hobby than anything else.
It is minimum requirement!
Wouldn't that be similar to thinking that all API SP oils are equivalent? While 229.5 is more stringent than many other motor oil specifications, manufacturers still have the ability to formulate their product differently from other products.
As a refence (which might be outdate, I am not sure)
post #7 has the Afton handbook attached. There you can find MB 229.5 requirements at page 115.
Now, if you got time, you can check an oil that has multiple approvals (e.g. MB 229.5+A40) and check in which areas the extra approvals might be more demanding than MB 229.5. Post #8 in this thread might be helpful.
Afton Specification Handbook -- September 2019
Afton has finally updated its very nice specification handbook. Afton Specification Handbook -- September 2019
bobistheoilguy.com
Now, if you got time, you can check an oil that has multiple approvals (e.g. MB 229.5+A40) and check in which areas the extra approvals might be more demanding than MB 229.5. Post #8 in this thread might be helpful.
As long as you don't think MB 229.5, 229.51 and 229.52 are same.
I don't think there's too much wiggle room.
It's one of the best specifications available off the shelf. We most likely won't see any "Better" oil than oil already approved with that spec until the next MB evolved specification comes around. I'd say run with the cheapest oil w/that spec since a lot of them are probably already Group III base oil.
I would agree that there is less wiggle room with Mercedes 229.5x and newer 229.xx specifications than most other oil specifications. But if you look at the approved motor oils, there is clearly enough to make different products. For example, Castrol has four different 229.5 approved 5w-40 motor oils, Castrol Edge 5w-40 A3/B4, Castrol Edge Professional A3 5w-40, Castrol Magnatec 5w-40 A3/B4 and Castrol Magnatec Professional A3 5w-40. Mobil has seven different 229.5 approved 5w-40 and seven 0w-40. Shell has six 0w-40 products with 229.5 approval.
While some of those within a given brand, could be the same product, but with a different name for different markets, some of these are clearly different oils. For example, M1 FS 5w-40 is definitely a premium product when compared to Mobil Super 3000 Formula M 5w-40.
Just an opinion, of course, but there is a philosophy, which I adhere to, that believes doing more than the minimum can / will (you choose) bring benefits beyond the minimal expectations.
In this case, hence the rationale for using an oil that might / may / or will, provide better protection and prolonged engine life.
Is it a game ? Obviously, since most won’t keep their vehicle long enough to reap the rewards, whatever they might be.
Z
Sure, of course but nobody other than the OE knows knows what the minimum will get you in terms of engine life.
The other issue is we have no idea by how much anything exceeds standards. There’s basically no objective evidence for anything beyond.
I have a 2009 Mercedes GL450 I bought from a friend maybe 1.5 years ago. It has a 4.7L V8. I have read in a few places that using thinner oil can lead to lifter problems. I live in Colorado- winters are not extremely cold. We will get a few days of single digits though usually, 25-45 degrees is common in the coldest two months. I have been using Liquimoly but switched to M1 0W40 for the winter. I do have one change worth of Amsoil 5w40 so that I can use in the summer when the M1 is ready to be changed.
I hear that Redline 5W40 is a thicker oil and Quaker State/Shell Ultra Helix are thinner 5W40s. Should I go with a thicker oil like the Redline 5W40 in the summer and use M1 0W40 or Quaker State in the winter, or just stick with one? Any thoughts would be appreciated since I tend to go overboard with over-analysis when it comes to things like this.
The lifter issue has been mention in a couple of forums related to the GL450 and I want to keep this car for a while.
I hear that Redline 5W40 is a thicker oil and Quaker State/Shell Ultra Helix are thinner 5W40s. Should I go with a thicker oil like the Redline 5W40 in the summer and use M1 0W40 or Quaker State in the winter, or just stick with one? Any thoughts would be appreciated since I tend to go overboard with over-analysis when it comes to things like this.
The lifter issue has been mention in a couple of forums related to the GL450 and I want to keep this car for a while.
Considering that all oils within one approval have the same minimum HT/HS it would be very hard to make a claim that one brand causes problems whereas one does not. The winter rating is irrelevant in this regard.
If Red Line oil "saves" the engine but the others do not then it is likely due to something else about the oil. Either that or due to Internet hype (which is rampant about lifters and so forth).
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Run the cheapest 0w40 that meets spec all year and worry about other things.
I don't think it was oil causing the issue. The GL450 is a bit more prone to the issue after 75K or so. Using thinner weight oils for exacerbated the problem. That was the gist what I was reading. I don't mind sticking with my M1 and Amsoil but wanted to check in since the lifter issue is around $5K-$6K to fix in these vehicles.
