Apple cancels EV development

[PandaBear]

I was not only referring to Googles and Facebooks of the silicon valley. R&D, studio offices even chip manufacturing is not the same as automotive manufacturing where many complex systems need to be integrated into one coherent product. Where you have to deal with tolerances, different material expansion rates, assembly processes etc.
Why do you think Tesla struggled so much? It was because Musk didn't understand these challenges at all being from the computer/programming background.

You do know we have a lot of hard drive companies here right? If the valley can R&D hard drive and precision semiconductor equipment going into clean room (and robotic surgery), car's tolerance and material expansion rates is not that hard.

The problem is more of a labor cost here, and people don't like to work for a company that won't grow its stock value much, and management that doesn't reward overtime work (i.e. 55 hours a week) with big bonus and promotion (i.e. lots of stocks).

Elon just doesn't care about building durable boring stuff when the cool stuff is always 18 months away, that's what you get in Tesla: cool stuff that's a few years ahead of competition in design, but don't expect boring durable reliable appliances like Toyota. (I love boring durable reliable appliances)

 

[PandaBear]

Six months later, a report from the WSJ stated that Cook had pitched Musk on the idea of Apple acquiring Tesla around that same time. Musk was reportedly interested in this proposition, but on one condition: He serves as CEO not of Tesla, but of Apple entirely.

Although I don't think Cook is as good as Steve as a CEO, he gets the job done and keep the company steady on the course Steve sets out.

Elon is a completely different kind of person and he would destroy Apple's customer base, product line, etc. Elon IMO is best being a serial startup CEO and hand over the company to a mature person once it is stable, and go start another startup again and again.

I think Elon should probably pass the Tesla torch to someone in 5-10 years and focus on AI / Neural link in another startup, if he can get cheap money to do so.

 

[normal username]

Apple's R&D is insane because of the huge amounts of money they have. You bet they looked into the concept of EVs in general. They saw something looming on the horizon and backed out.

Apple is a titan-level company and everyone follows. They already have Apple Carplay which millions of people already love, so no harm done tbh.

 

[Torrid]

Apple's R&D is insane because of the huge amounts of money they have. You bet they looked into the concept of EVs in general. They saw something looming on the horizon and backed out.

Apple is a titan-level company and everyone follows. They already have Apple Carplay which millions of people already love, so no harm done tbh.

I think they just don't want the responsibilities that come along with manufacturing a car. Look at their market share and what's profitable to them. They obviously make computers, but the vast majority of their profit comes from iPhones and AirPods which takes up a lot less space and has a lot less safety implications.

 

[normal username]

I think they just don't want the responsibilities that come along with manufacturing a car. Look at their market share and what's profitable to them. They obviously make computers, but the vast majority of their profit comes from iPhones and AirPods which takes up a lot less space and has a lot less safety implications.

I don’t disagree with what you’re saying but if we thought of this detail, don’t you think they did from inception too?

 

[Torrid]

I don’t disagree with what you’re saying but if we thought of this detail, don’t you think they did from inception too?

I think it was a design exercise for research and a bit of publicity. I doubt they ever intended to actually follow through.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Apple threw in the towel. Making a profitable autonomous EV is no small task. They saw the losses the big guys are having, which helped make the decision.

 

[demarpaint]

Apple threw in the towel. Making a profitable autonomous EV is no small task. They saw the losses the big guys are having, which helped make the decision.

Not worth it to them. My guess is they'll let someone else figure it out and if they think it is something worth owning they can always consider buying that company. With a market cap pushing $3 trillion they can pretty much buy whatever they want. Right now they think there's more money in AI, so do I.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Not worth it to them. My guess is they'll let someone else figure it out and if they think it is something worth owning they can always consider buying that company. With a market cap pushing $3 trillion they can pretty much buy whatever they want. Right now they think there's more money in AI, so do I.

Sure. It only took them 10 years and billion$ to figure that out. Don't get me wrong, Apple is the jewel of Silicon Valley. But this kinda investment shows the difficulty of EV and autonomous vehicle development. Apple simply realized they didn't have what it takes to compete.
By the way, autonomous driving requires AI.

Apple has been experimenting and developing AI for years, but was caught flat footed when ChatGPT and other AI tools took the technology industry by storm.

The major players are Microsoft, Alphabet, NVIDIA, Meta (Facebook), Tesla, IBM and Palantir. Apple has some catching up to do.
The Spaceship is right around the corner...

 

[demarpaint]

Sure. It only took them 10 years and billion$ to figure that out. Don't get me wrong, Apple is the jewel of Silicon Valley. But this kinda investment shows the difficulty of EV and autonomous vehicle development. Apple simply realized they didn't have what it takes to compete.
By the way, autonomous driving requires AI.

Apple has been experimenting and developing AI for years, but was caught flat footed when ChatGPT and other AI tools took the technology industry by storm.

The major players are Microsoft, Alphabet, NVIDIA, Meta (Facebook), Tesla, IBM and Palantir. Apple has some catching up to do.
The Spaceship is right around the corner...
View attachment 206010

I'm well aware, and much like Toyota I won't count Apple out. IMO at the moment self driving cars are not what they're cracked up to be. As it stands now I see them as a big lawsuit on wheels. Apple reallocating the ~2,000 employees to AI will probably pay off better than the EV would have. As always opinions will vary.

 

[Torrid]

I'm well aware, and much like Toyota I won't count Apple out. IMO at the moment self driving cars are not what they're cracked up to be. As it stands now I see them as a big lawsuit on wheels. Apple reallocating the ~2,000 employees to AI will probably pay off better than the EV would have. As always opinions will vary.

It’s a novelty at this point and the system on the cars with the T badge is all smoke and mirrors. I can’t take anyone seriously who bought FSD and doesn’t regret the “investment”.

 

[demarpaint]

It’s a novelty at this point and the system on the cars with the T badge is all smoke and mirrors. I can’t take anyone seriously who bought FSD and doesn’t regret the “investment”.

Exactly, and it is going to be a novelty for quite a while.

 

[Frankrank]

Apple found out they couldn't build a EV without Windows.

 

[Zee09]

I just saw the ultimate autonomous vehicle. Electric and petrol free.
A young Amish guy on the back roads of rural PA. With his hands off the reins and he was asleep... totally asleep and the horse knows what to do... I never seen that before...

 

[cptbarkey]

I just saw the ultimate autonomous vehicle. Electric and petrol free.
A young Amish guy on the back roads of rural PA. With his hands off the reins and he was asleep... totally asleep and the horse knows what to do... I never seen that before...

Horses are amazing 1 ton creatures. They don't sell your PII to marketing companies except you better have a few carrots right on time every day.

 

[97prizm]

This is unfortunate.

I really like using car play in my Cadillac XT5 because the GM factory nav and entertainment is just awful, it's as bad as my Lexus was which I never thought possible.

This reduces GM's desirability as an option to me going forward.

Eh just gut the audio system. Go with a nice Elipse, nakamichi, or Pioneer Premier deck, then amp, and Focal or Infinity Speakers.

 

[dogememe]

Eh just gut the audio system. Go with a nice Elipse, nakamichi, or Pioneer Premier deck, then amp, and Focal or Infinity Speakers.

It's not that simple. So much stuff runs through infotainment systems on modern cars. Especially on EV with charging settings. Time of use based charging, max charge limit, etc. Can't be integrated into an off the shelf head unit.

 

[UncleDave]

Eh just gut the audio system. Go with a nice Elipse, nakamichi, or Pioneer Premier deck, then amp, and Focal or Infinity Speakers.

Speakers - sure...

Problem is the screen is more than just audio - too much stuff is controlled or informed from/by it to make that work.

 

[Brons2]

The part in the Bloomberg story that nailed it for me was that Apple was planning on delaying the release of car with level 2+ automated driving in 2028. That would put them more than 5 years behind what Mercedes is already doing today.

Being second to market has not hurt Apple in the past. The iPhone was not the first smartphone, and the iPad was not the first tablet, they just made both products much better that what existed in the marketplace at the time.

Car manufacturing is a cut-throat, low margin business and I don't think the projected returns were there for the finance guys to sign off on it.

Same reason they've never made a TV, despite years of speculation, there are already great TVs out there, and it's not a high margin business.

Apple also prides themselves on their ability to differentiate themselves from their competitors in their chosen markets, perhaps here that was not a possiblity either.

 

[Torrid]

Being second to market has not hurt Apple in the past. The iPhone was not the first smartphone, and the iPad was not the first tablet, they just made both products much better that what existed in the marketplace at the time.

Car manufacturing is a cut-throat, low margin business and I don't think the projected returns were there for the finance guys to sign off on it.

Same reason they've never made a TV, despite years of speculation, there are already great TVs out there, and it's not a high margin business.

Apple also prides themselves on their ability to differentiate themselves from their competitors in their chosen markets, perhaps here that was not a possiblity either.

I think you might have nailed it here. There's a sea of new EVs and the technology isn't there to blow all the competition out of the water with a middle of the road to slightly premium price like every other product Apple makes. Interesting the perception that Apple does have for expensive products though. They aren't the most expensive in any category. They tend to be just below that, but holds a premium perception.