Amsoil Euro 5w30 -- 3,041 miles -- 07 Civic Si

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Re. tpitcher: Who really cares?? All the moly Phos Calcium, the wear was great, TBN retention was good who cares?


Wear was great? We know this because he tore the engine down and measured? Or we assume so because the numbers are in-line with his previous results which also mean we are making assumptions about "wear".....


Right. People can say/think low additives wear just fine, but if you took 2 engines made with the same tight tolerances (almost impossible), drove them the same for, say 250k, one with a robust, beefy add. pack and one with the weak add. pack, I BET the engine with the beefier add. pack wears less & lasts longer. That's what I'm getting at.

But, most people don't keep a car 250k, so most don't care which add. pack they use, cause the car will be someone else's!



I agree. But you know, I bet it would be hard to determine that from just UOA's

In fact UOA's may show the opposite. The stronger add-pack oils sometimes yield "worse" UOA's because of the higher additive concentrations.


Now, THAT would be a good analysis to do.....

But, you know, they may drive the car harder too.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Re. tpitcher: Who really cares?? All the moly Phos Calcium, the wear was great, TBN retention was good who cares?


Wear was great? We know this because he tore the engine down and measured? Or we assume so because the numbers are in-line with his previous results which also mean we are making assumptions about "wear".....


Right. People can say/think low additives wear just fine, but if you took 2 engines made with the same tight tolerances (almost impossible), drove them the same for, say 250k, one with a robust, beefy add. pack and one with the weak add. pack, I BET the engine with the beefier add. pack wears less & lasts longer. That's what I'm getting at.

But, most people don't keep a car 250k, so most don't care which add. pack they use, cause the car will be someone else's!



I agree. But you know, I bet it would be hard to determine that from just UOA's

In fact UOA's may show the opposite. The stronger add-pack oils sometimes yield "worse" UOA's because of the higher additive concentrations.


Maybe in older, high mileage engine's which ran on who knows what AND THEN started using a high detergent oil, which started cleaning up bits and pieces, possibly showing more metal in UOA reports.

With an engine that started life running with a high detergent oil, i doubt the same can be said.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: tpitcher


Now, THAT would be a good analysis to do.....

But, you know, they may drive the car harder too.

You just said that both cars would be driven the same though.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Artem


Maybe in older, high mileage engine's which ran on who knows what AND THEN started using a high detergent oil, which started cleaning up bits and pieces, possibly showing more metal in UOA reports.

With an engine that started life running with a high detergent oil, i doubt the same can be said.


Chelation sir. Chemical chelation.

And the fun part: You can't tell the difference between metals showing up as the result of chelation or actual wear in UOA's

 

[Artem]

I don't know what to say to that then...

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: tpitcher


Now, THAT would be a good analysis to do.....

But, you know, they may drive the car harder too.

You just said that both cars would be driven the same though.


I was replying to OK1's - High add. pack vs low add. pack differences.

 

[Artem]

got cha

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Re. tpitcher: Who really cares?? All the moly Phos Calcium, the wear was great, TBN retention was good who cares?


I agree. Wear numbers are low, TBN retention is GREAT, IMO, what's not to love?

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Ya, B-S is way off, it should look like other 507.00 oils.

(this is really the 507.00 5w30 flavor and not the 229.51-only 5w40)

Possibly but you're comparing M1 to Amsoil

I'll email them asking about the low numbers but we'll see what the second UOA @ 5k will look like.


I'm comparing two VW 504.00/507.00 / MB 229.51 / BMW LL04 oils. Brand doesn't matter. These Euro specs have strict chemical limits. Very little wiggle room to meet the performance specs and chemical limits.

 

[Artem]

Hmmmm... I'll ask Blackstone about what they have to say about it.