Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: grampi
There is no substantiated evidence that pot is harmful, just rhetoric put out by either pharmaceutical companies, or negative info put out for political reasons...like was said by another poster, if pot is so dangerous, then you should have no problem posting proof showing thousands of people ailing and or dying from using it, since its used by millions of people...FWIW, I've smoked it since the 70s and I hold down a good paying job and have no health issues because of it...
So if you develop Emphysema or some other lung ailment related to smoking, will you count that as a slight toward it like we do with Tobacco or does pot get a free pass because it is "awesome"
Pot doesn't have to be smoked for the benefits it provides some people, like for say those that suffer from chronic pain. And edibles (and other forms that don't involve smoking) don't have the lovely byproduct of having many of the common risks shared with Tobacco use.
Now, with respect to long-term effects, I've found in these discussion in the past that any evidence that doesn't support the position of the person who's doing the advocating, like yourself who is, being a user, in a position that cannot, in any way, shape, or form, be described as unbiased or neutral, is discounted as being biased or "conspiracy" or some other term that allows them to dismiss it because they really aren't interested in anything that doesn't make them feel good about their decision.
Many publicly funded organizations, Educational Institutions and the like, have provided data on the subject. This data is far more credible than the pro-pot propaganda which many of these pot evangelists will cite as "the truth, man" as they omit any and all detractors.
One source is The National Institute for Drug Abuse which states:
Quote:
Marijuana also affects brain development. When people begin using marijuana as teenagers, the drug may impair thinking, memory, and learning functions and affect how the brain builds connections between the areas necessary for these functions. Researchers are still studying how long marijuana's effects last and whether some changes may be permanent.
For example, a study from New Zealand conducted in part by researchers at Duke University showed that people who started smoking marijuana heavily in their teens and had an ongoing marijuana use disorder lost an average of 8 IQ points between ages 13 and 38. The lost mental abilities didn't fully return in those who quit marijuana as adults. Those who started smoking marijuana as adults didn't show notable IQ declines.
Quote:
The amount of THC in marijuana has been increasing steadily over the past few decades. For a person who's new to marijuana use, this may mean exposure to higher THC levels with a greater chance of a harmful reaction. Higher THC levels may explain the rise in emergency room visits involving marijuana use.
The popularity of edibles also increases the chance of harmful reactions. Edibles take longer to digest and produce a high. Therefore, people may consume more to feel the effects faster, leading to dangerous results.
Higher THC levels may also mean a greater risk for addiction if people are regularly exposing themselves to high doses.
Quote:
Breathing problems. Marijuana smoke irritates the lungs, and people who smoke marijuana frequently can have the same breathing problems as those who smoke tobacco. These problems include daily cough and phlegm, more frequent lung illness, and a higher risk of lung infections. Researchers so far haven't found a higher risk for lung cancer in people who smoke marijuana.
Quote:
Increased heart rate. Marijuana raises heart rate for up to 3 hours after smoking. This effect may increase the chance of heart attack. Older people and those with heart problems may be at higher risk.
Quote:
Problems with child development during and after pregnancy. Marijuana use during pregnancy is linked to lower birth weight9 and increased risk of both brain and behavioral problems in babies. If a pregnant woman uses marijuana, the drug may affect certain developing parts of the fetus's brain. Children exposed to marijuana in the womb have an increased risk of problems with attention,10 memory, and problem-solving compared to unexposed children.11 Some research also suggests that moderate amounts of THC are excreted into the breast milk of nursing mothers.12 With regular use, THC can reach amounts in breast milk that could affect the baby's developing brain. More research is needed.
Quote:
Intense Nausea and Vomiting. Regular, long-term marijuana use can lead to some people to develop Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome. This causes users to experience regular cycles of severe nausea, vomiting, and dehydration, sometimes requiring emergency medical attention.
Quote:
Long-term marijuana use has been linked to mental illness in some people, such as:
- temporary hallucinations
- temporary paranoia
- worsening symptoms in patients with schizophrenia—a severe mental disorder with symptoms such as hallucinations, paranoia, and disorganized thinking
Marijuana use has also been linked to other mental health problems, such as depression, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts among teens. However, study findings have been mixed.
Quote:
More research is needed to know if secondhand marijuana smoke has similar health risks as secondhand tobacco smoke. A recent study on rats suggests that secondhand marijuana smoke can do as much damage to the heart and blood vessels as secondhand tobacco smoke.19 But researchers haven't fully explored the effect of secondhand marijuana smoke on humans. What they do know is that the toxins and tar found in marijuana smoke could affect vulnerable people, such as children or people with asthma.
On that last point, regarding smoking risks, that really shouldn't be surprising.
But of course it isn't all bad. From the same source.
Quote:
Because the marijuana plant contains chemicals that may help treat a range of illnesses and symptoms, many people argue that it should be legal for medical purposes. In fact, a growing number of states have legalized marijuana for medical use.
and
Quote:
Some preliminary studies have suggested that medical marijuana legalization might be associated with decreased prescription opioid use and overdose deaths, but researchers don't have enough evidence yet to confirm this finding. For example, one NIDA-funded study suggested a link between medical marijuana legalization and fewer overdose deaths from prescription opioids.1 But this study didn't show that medical marijuana legalization caused the decrease in deaths or that pain patients changed their drug-taking behavior. A more detailed NIDA-funded analysis showed that legally protected medical marijuana dispensaries, not just medical marijuana laws, were also associated with a decrease in the following:
- opioid prescribing
- self-reports of opioid misuse
- treatment admissions for opioid addiction
Additionally, data suggests that medical marijuana treatment may reduce the opioid dose prescribed for pain patients, and a recent study showed that availability of medical marijuana for Medicare patients reduced prescribing of medications, including opioids, for their pain.7 NIDA is funding additional studies to determine the link between medical marijuana use and the use or misuse of opioids for pain.
and
Quote:
There is growing interest in the marijuana chemical cannabidiol (CBD) to treat certain conditions such as childhood epilepsy, a disorder that causes a child to have violent seizures. Therefore, scientists have been specially breeding marijuana plants and making CBD in oil form for treatment purposes. These drugs aren't popular for recreational use because they aren't intoxicating.
Quote:
How might cannabinoids be useful as medicine?
Currently, the two main cannabinoids from the marijuana plant that are of medical interest are THC and CBD.
THC can increase appetite and reduce nausea. THC may also decrease pain, inflammation (swelling and redness), and muscle control problems.
Unlike THC, CBD is a cannabinoid that doesn't make people "high." It may be useful in reducing pain and inflammation, controlling epileptic seizures, and possibly even treating mental illness and addictions.
Many researchers, including those funded by the National Institutes of Health (NIH), are continuing to explore the possible uses of THC, CBD, and other cannabinoids for medical treatment.
Quote:
For instance, recent animal studies have shown that marijuana extracts may help kill certain cancer cells and reduce the size of others. Evidence from one cell culture study with rodents suggests that purified extracts from whole-plant marijuana can slow the growth of cancer cells from one of the most serious types of brain tumors. Research in mice showed that treatment with purified extracts of THC and CBD, when used with radiation, increased the cancer-killing effects of the radiation.8
Scientists are also conducting preclinical and clinical trials with marijuana and its extracts to treat symptoms of illness and other conditions, such as:
diseases that affect the immune system, including:
HIV/AIDS
multiple sclerosis (MS), which causes gradual loss of muscle control
inflammation
pain
seizures
substance use disorders
mental disorders
Marijuana, unlike Ethanol, doesn't have the ability to kill you with over consumption based on the data I've seen. It also has the ability to be developed into products with legitimate medical use. But it's not providing the average recreational user with any health benefits, and the risks associated with smoking draw many parallels with those of Tobacco. The other risks and effects on mental health are still actively being studied, just like they are with Alcohol.
Given its status socially, I find it quite fitting that governments have looked at legalization, like they did with Alcohol, as a for-profit enterprise, which, much to the chagrin of pot advocates, is how it has been pursued up here. Like with prohibition, it has become abundantly clear that making something illegal doesn't stop people from doing it. Regulation on the other hand, can be extremely lucrative, which is why, in Ontario, Marijuana will be regulated and sold by the same entity that currently handles Alcohol.
Ultimately recreational marijuana use is done for the same reasons people consume alcohol. Arguing whose vice is "better" is ridiculous. Unless your pot use morphs into a heroin dependancy (unlikely) or your wine glass with dinner turns into full blown alcoholism (also statistically unlikely) neither is likely harmful or beneficial in any meaningful way. Whether you prefer to wind down with a joint or a bottle of wine, it really isn't all that different. The main issue seems to be that at this time the latter is legal whilst the former is not yet in most places.
Also, like with alcohol, impairment is impairment. Just like I wouldn't want Jimmy driving a car after 4 or 5 beer, I wouldn't want you driving one stoned out of your tree either. This is a point on which I see a lot of pot users get indignant, somehow thinking that them being baked is superior to the guy that's drunk. Wrong.
Like I said to andrewg, you or anyone else can probably dig up studies that show pot is harmful, but how much use does it take to cause health problems? Literally EVERYTHING can be bad for you if you consume too much of it. Eating too many cheeseburgers can kill you. Drinking too much soda can kill you. Heck, drinking too much water can kill you. I don't believe, nor will I ever believe that smoking pot IN MODERATION is bad for a person...at least not bad enough to be afraid of it...you will die from some other ailment long before smoking pot kills you...
You seem pretty worked up for a pothead, Cheech.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: grampi
There is no substantiated evidence that pot is harmful, just rhetoric put out by either pharmaceutical companies, or negative info put out for political reasons...like was said by another poster, if pot is so dangerous, then you should have no problem posting proof showing thousands of people ailing and or dying from using it, since its used by millions of people...FWIW, I've smoked it since the 70s and I hold down a good paying job and have no health issues because of it...
So if you develop Emphysema or some other lung ailment related to smoking, will you count that as a slight toward it like we do with Tobacco or does pot get a free pass because it is "awesome"
Pot doesn't have to be smoked for the benefits it provides some people, like for say those that suffer from chronic pain. And edibles (and other forms that don't involve smoking) don't have the lovely byproduct of having many of the common risks shared with Tobacco use.
Now, with respect to long-term effects, I've found in these discussion in the past that any evidence that doesn't support the position of the person who's doing the advocating, like yourself who is, being a user, in a position that cannot, in any way, shape, or form, be described as unbiased or neutral, is discounted as being biased or "conspiracy" or some other term that allows them to dismiss it because they really aren't interested in anything that doesn't make them feel good about their decision.
Many publicly funded organizations, Educational Institutions and the like, have provided data on the subject. This data is far more credible than the pro-pot propaganda which many of these pot evangelists will cite as "the truth, man" as they omit any and all detractors.
One source is The National Institute for Drug Abuse which states:
Quote:
Marijuana also affects brain development. When people begin using marijuana as teenagers, the drug may impair thinking, memory, and learning functions and affect how the brain builds connections between the areas necessary for these functions. Researchers are still studying how long marijuana's effects last and whether some changes may be permanent.
For example, a study from New Zealand conducted in part by researchers at Duke University showed that people who started smoking marijuana heavily in their teens and had an ongoing marijuana use disorder lost an average of 8 IQ points between ages 13 and 38. The lost mental abilities didn't fully return in those who quit marijuana as adults. Those who started smoking marijuana as adults didn't show notable IQ declines.
Quote:
The amount of THC in marijuana has been increasing steadily over the past few decades. For a person who's new to marijuana use, this may mean exposure to higher THC levels with a greater chance of a harmful reaction. Higher THC levels may explain the rise in emergency room visits involving marijuana use.
The popularity of edibles also increases the chance of harmful reactions. Edibles take longer to digest and produce a high. Therefore, people may consume more to feel the effects faster, leading to dangerous results.
Higher THC levels may also mean a greater risk for addiction if people are regularly exposing themselves to high doses.
Quote:
Breathing problems. Marijuana smoke irritates the lungs, and people who smoke marijuana frequently can have the same breathing problems as those who smoke tobacco. These problems include daily cough and phlegm, more frequent lung illness, and a higher risk of lung infections. Researchers so far haven't found a higher risk for lung cancer in people who smoke marijuana.
Quote:
Increased heart rate. Marijuana raises heart rate for up to 3 hours after smoking. This effect may increase the chance of heart attack. Older people and those with heart problems may be at higher risk.
Quote:
Problems with child development during and after pregnancy. Marijuana use during pregnancy is linked to lower birth weight9 and increased risk of both brain and behavioral problems in babies. If a pregnant woman uses marijuana, the drug may affect certain developing parts of the fetus's brain. Children exposed to marijuana in the womb have an increased risk of problems with attention,10 memory, and problem-solving compared to unexposed children.11 Some research also suggests that moderate amounts of THC are excreted into the breast milk of nursing mothers.12 With regular use, THC can reach amounts in breast milk that could affect the baby's developing brain. More research is needed.
Quote:
Intense Nausea and Vomiting. Regular, long-term marijuana use can lead to some people to develop Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome. This causes users to experience regular cycles of severe nausea, vomiting, and dehydration, sometimes requiring emergency medical attention.
Quote:
Long-term marijuana use has been linked to mental illness in some people, such as:
- temporary hallucinations
- temporary paranoia
- worsening symptoms in patients with schizophrenia—a severe mental disorder with symptoms such as hallucinations, paranoia, and disorganized thinking
Marijuana use has also been linked to other mental health problems, such as depression, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts among teens. However, study findings have been mixed.
Quote:
More research is needed to know if secondhand marijuana smoke has similar health risks as secondhand tobacco smoke. A recent study on rats suggests that secondhand marijuana smoke can do as much damage to the heart and blood vessels as secondhand tobacco smoke.19 But researchers haven't fully explored the effect of secondhand marijuana smoke on humans. What they do know is that the toxins and tar found in marijuana smoke could affect vulnerable people, such as children or people with asthma.
On that last point, regarding smoking risks, that really shouldn't be surprising.
But of course it isn't all bad. From the same source.
Quote:
Because the marijuana plant contains chemicals that may help treat a range of illnesses and symptoms, many people argue that it should be legal for medical purposes. In fact, a growing number of states have legalized marijuana for medical use.
and
Quote:
Some preliminary studies have suggested that medical marijuana legalization might be associated with decreased prescription opioid use and overdose deaths, but researchers don't have enough evidence yet to confirm this finding. For example, one NIDA-funded study suggested a link between medical marijuana legalization and fewer overdose deaths from prescription opioids.1 But this study didn't show that medical marijuana legalization caused the decrease in deaths or that pain patients changed their drug-taking behavior. A more detailed NIDA-funded analysis showed that legally protected medical marijuana dispensaries, not just medical marijuana laws, were also associated with a decrease in the following:
- opioid prescribing
- self-reports of opioid misuse
- treatment admissions for opioid addiction
Additionally, data suggests that medical marijuana treatment may reduce the opioid dose prescribed for pain patients, and a recent study showed that availability of medical marijuana for Medicare patients reduced prescribing of medications, including opioids, for their pain.7 NIDA is funding additional studies to determine the link between medical marijuana use and the use or misuse of opioids for pain.
and
Quote:
There is growing interest in the marijuana chemical cannabidiol (CBD) to treat certain conditions such as childhood epilepsy, a disorder that causes a child to have violent seizures. Therefore, scientists have been specially breeding marijuana plants and making CBD in oil form for treatment purposes. These drugs aren't popular for recreational use because they aren't intoxicating.
Quote:
How might cannabinoids be useful as medicine?
Currently, the two main cannabinoids from the marijuana plant that are of medical interest are THC and CBD.
THC can increase appetite and reduce nausea. THC may also decrease pain, inflammation (swelling and redness), and muscle control problems.
Unlike THC, CBD is a cannabinoid that doesn't make people "high." It may be useful in reducing pain and inflammation, controlling epileptic seizures, and possibly even treating mental illness and addictions.
Many researchers, including those funded by the National Institutes of Health (NIH), are continuing to explore the possible uses of THC, CBD, and other cannabinoids for medical treatment.
Quote:
For instance, recent animal studies have shown that marijuana extracts may help kill certain cancer cells and reduce the size of others. Evidence from one cell culture study with rodents suggests that purified extracts from whole-plant marijuana can slow the growth of cancer cells from one of the most serious types of brain tumors. Research in mice showed that treatment with purified extracts of THC and CBD, when used with radiation, increased the cancer-killing effects of the radiation.8
Scientists are also conducting preclinical and clinical trials with marijuana and its extracts to treat symptoms of illness and other conditions, such as:
diseases that affect the immune system, including:
HIV/AIDS
multiple sclerosis (MS), which causes gradual loss of muscle control
inflammation
pain
seizures
substance use disorders
mental disorders
Marijuana, unlike Ethanol, doesn't have the ability to kill you with over consumption based on the data I've seen. It also has the ability to be developed into products with legitimate medical use. But it's not providing the average recreational user with any health benefits, and the risks associated with smoking draw many parallels with those of Tobacco. The other risks and effects on mental health are still actively being studied, just like they are with Alcohol.
Given its status socially, I find it quite fitting that governments have looked at legalization, like they did with Alcohol, as a for-profit enterprise, which, much to the chagrin of pot advocates, is how it has been pursued up here. Like with prohibition, it has become abundantly clear that making something illegal doesn't stop people from doing it. Regulation on the other hand, can be extremely lucrative, which is why, in Ontario, Marijuana will be regulated and sold by the same entity that currently handles Alcohol.
Ultimately recreational marijuana use is done for the same reasons people consume alcohol. Arguing whose vice is "better" is ridiculous. Unless your pot use morphs into a heroin dependancy (unlikely) or your wine glass with dinner turns into full blown alcoholism (also statistically unlikely) neither is likely harmful or beneficial in any meaningful way. Whether you prefer to wind down with a joint or a bottle of wine, it really isn't all that different. The main issue seems to be that at this time the latter is legal whilst the former is not yet in most places.
Also, like with alcohol, impairment is impairment. Just like I wouldn't want Jimmy driving a car after 4 or 5 beer, I wouldn't want you driving one stoned out of your tree either. This is a point on which I see a lot of pot users get indignant, somehow thinking that them being baked is superior to the guy that's drunk. Wrong.
Like I said to andrewg, you or anyone else can probably dig up studies that show pot is harmful, but how much use does it take to cause health problems? Literally EVERYTHING can be bad for you if you consume too much of it. Eating too many cheeseburgers can kill you. Drinking too much soda can kill you. Heck, drinking too much water can kill you. I don't believe, nor will I ever believe that smoking pot IN MODERATION is bad for a person...at least not bad enough to be afraid of it...you will die from some other ailment long before smoking pot kills you...
You seem pretty worked up for a pothead, Cheech.
