Air Serbia AS86C incident in Belgrade

[edyvw]

I noted that Air Serbia will no longer have a wet lease arrangement with Marathon Airlines, so I guess they agree with you. Actually, I think Air Serbia has cut off all relations with Marathon Airlines. Probably a smart move, even if a little bit late.

They got into hot water bcs. first info was: passengers were absolutely not in danger!

 

[edyvw]

Lucky Lucky Lucky.
I saw this on another site and thought that they were very fortunate not to have ended up plowing off the end of the runway at a high rate of speed into whatever may lie there.
The crew presumably hold (held) EASA certificates?
A shout out to Embraer for building a very stout airframe although the tear in the fuselage will not be an easy fix. Even though fairly young, a write-off?

Yes. EASA certification. Marathon is Greek company.

 

[edyvw]

Read the communication between the aircraft and Tower ( ATC ) and it provided enough information to allow me to conclude they were totally incompetent.

I can fully understand ANY pilot making a mistake ( I mean any ) but that's gross incompetence if it's true they were aware the only had just over 4000 feet.

4000 is a very short distance even for landing, why they weren't aware it was too short for take-off is mind-boggling.

A very experienced Emirates crew made a "similar" mistake ( not enough runway for the calculated take-off thrust ) taking off in a very heavy Airbus BUT I can easily see how they made that unfortunate mistake ( they got fired ).

I blame Airbus or Emirates flight Ops for not realizing it was just a matter of time before crews input the wrong take-off weight ( exacerbated by the fact their route network had big differences in the take-off weights crews would see ) and no "gross error" backup technology was provided to them ( except...both pilots independently check/calculate the take-off data ).

Today, Airbus pilots have take-off performance automatically uplinked to the pilot's FMS ( who still must independently CHECK, not calculate ) after they input factors such as weight, OAT, wind etc.

If the weight doesn't match the load data, it will warn the pilots.

I like learning from unfortunate mistakes so I HOPEFULLY won't make the same one myself but sometimes it is total incompetence and nothing to learn from.

Gross incompetence, sums this up.
Problem is, Air Serbia increased destinations by some 110% in a year. They are wet leasing whoever has EASA certification. Obviously, Marathon has some big issues.

 

[john_pifer]

They’re tough little jets.

Someone mentioned fuel dumping. The Embraers don’t have that capability.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

They’re tough little jets.

Someone mentioned fuel dumping. The Embraers don’t have that capability.

You're right, that was me. No small jet aircraft like it do, I was going to go back and correct it but the edit option was gone by then.

Yes, I sound critical but delaying the return for landing was further proof the Captain doesn't have proper judgment.

Sound too harsh? Pilots going through the upgrade process, at a well-run airline, need to demonstrate good judgment or they do not get to be a Captain. I bet they don't have any "command upgrade" extra hoops to fly through to go Captain and just go from the RIGHT seat to the left seat.

If I was a check pilot doing a command sim on a pilot and they delayed coming back as long as they did I would fail them ( runway length not a problem, no need to burn off fuel ).

Not every pilot is suited to be a Captain ( even with experience ).

EDIT: right to left seat.

 

[edyvw]

You're right, that was me. No small jet aircraft like it do, I was going to go back and correct it but the edit option was gone by then.

Yes, I sound critical but delaying the return for landing was further proof the Captain doesn't have proper judgment.

Sound too harsh? Pilots going through the upgrade process, at a well-run airline, need to demonstrate good judgment or they do not get to be a Captain. I bet they don't have any "command upgrade" extra hoops to fly through to go Captain and just go from the RIGHT seat to the left seat.

If I was a check pilot doing a command sim on a pilot and they delayed coming back as long as they did I would fail them ( runway length not a problem, no need to burn off fuel ).

Not every pilot is suited to be a Captain ( even with experience ).

EDIT: right to left seat.

There is no such thing. There are a bunch of people behind pilots.
I am trying to relate this message to my students that regardless of whether they think their job is minuscule or very important, judgment, decision-making process, and ethical behavior are always imperative. If that slips through, you get the Tuskegee Syphilis experiment, the Challenger disaster, the Columbia disaster, the Flint Water crisis, Boeing MAX etc, etc.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

There is no such thing. There are a bunch of people behind pilots.
I am trying to relate this message to my students that regardless of whether they think their job is minuscule or very important, judgment, decision-making process, and ethical behavior are always imperative. If that slips through, you get the Tuskegee Syphilis experiment, the Challenger disaster, the Columbia disaster, the Flint Water crisis, Boeing MAX etc, etc.

Please expand on “ there is no such thing” ( being too harsh? ).

 

[edyvw]

Please expand on “ there is no such thing” ( being too harsh? ).

I mean you said “sound too harsh.” I am just reiterating your point. In that business, there is no such thing. No emotions, just facts. If someone doesn’t have good judgment, so be it. Not everyone is fit to be in that seat. Otherwise, we saw what could happen.