ACDelco PF64 - pics

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: webfors
So what are your thoughts on the 22psi bypass spec? The PF64 has *52 pleats*. I can't imagine the XG10060 having more flow capabilities with half the pleats to compensate for a 9-12psi bypass.

Full synthetic media flows much easier than cellulous. Part of the high bypass setting on the AC Delco could be from the filter being somewhat restrictive. That combined with high flow would dictate a high bypass valve setting.

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: webfors
So what are your thoughts on the 22psi bypass spec? The PF64 has *52 pleats*. I can't imagine the XG10060 having more flow capabilities with half the pleats to compensate for a 9-12psi bypass.

Full synthetic media flows much easier than cellulous. Part of the high bypass setting on the AC Delco could be from the filter being somewhat restrictive. That combined with high flow would dictate a high bypass valve setting.


Double the pleats and double the bypass psi spec would require a media that is, at minimum, twice (or is it 4 times..?) as nonrestrictive before entering bypass.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Subaru filters have a high bypass setting too. Subarus have very high output oil pumps. But a filter's delta-p vs flow curve is also part of the equation to determine what the bypass valve setting should be.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: webfors
So what are your thoughts on the 22psi bypass spec? The PF64 has *52 pleats*. I can't imagine the XG10060 having more flow capabilities with half the pleats to compensate for a 9-12psi bypass. I'm thinking I should get the PF64 back on there and take the up on their offer to swap the oil out again as a result of the 'clerical error'.


Most quickie lube shops aren't going to care or even fully understand bypass psi like GM does and we do, so a lot of cars will just dumb it down to whatever fits. But we can do better:

Hastings LF630 with a similar bypass psi of 20 psi, close enough.
Same bypass psi for Balwin B7422 as the Hastings, so either is the same here.
Fram Racing HP18 has a 22 psi bypass (and a screen over the bypass valve, very cool, very sturdy oil filter).

If you can go oversize slightly, the Wix 57502 and 51372 both have a 22 psi bypass valve.
(Notice the Wix 57060 is the right size, but it's bypass psi is too low at only 12 psi.)
Fram Racing HP19 is oversize, 22 psi bypass.
AC-Delco PF63E is oversize with a 22 psi bypass.

Of all the ones above, Wix has the most efficient filtering, but they are oversize, so can't be used by all if interference issues are there.
Fram Racing oil filters do OK on filtering efficiency, 94% at 20 microns, not too bad, so a good but expensive choice.
Hastings and Baldwin might be using a nitrile ADBV instead of the desired silicone ADBV the Wix and Fram Racing oil filters have.
AC-Delco PF64 (and PF63E oversized one) has nitrile ADBV and I think they have paper-only media, not great really.

For the nice Cadillac ATS, a very expensive car deserving of the best-constructed oil filter with a correct size & bypass psi (22 psi), I'd just get the Fram Racing HP18 (amazon or Summit Racing online maybe). Certainly filters better than a PF64, and built stronger too, with a silicone ADBV too.

I like the high 22 psi bypass, although Fram Ultra has the best media. Can't use a Fram Ultra due to bypass psi though!

references:

http://www.fram.com/media/1075/fram-racing-filter-sell-sheet.pdf
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4326934/
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/att...f-pf64-pf48.pdf

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
I like the high 22 psi bypass, although Fram Ultra has the best media. Can't use a Fram Ultra due to bypass psi though!


It really depends on what the flow vs delta-p curve looks like for any specific oil filter. Full synthetic filters typically have less flow resistance, so you can get more flow while keeping the delta-p down.

If Fram specifies an Ultra for that car, then I'd email Fram and specifically ask if it's really a correct application since GM says to use an oil filter (AC Delco specifically) that has a 22 PSI bypass valve. See if Fram can give flow vs delta-p data on the filter specified for the specific filter application.

As an example, there have been many threads about the high flow oil pumps on Subaru engines, and Subaru OEM filters having a high bypass valve setting. Some guys at the time were running PureOne filters, and when they saw the flow vs delta-p curve realized there was only about 5 PSI of delta-p at 12 GPM with hot oil then they weren't as concerned about it.

 

[oil_film_movies]

GM's memo really means they want to avoid bypass events if possible. They are concerned about chunks on the dirty side of the filter getting washed back into the engine via the bypass valve. If it concerns them, it concerns me. They see what happens in the customer fleets.

Say the Fram Ultra has 20% less resistance to flow than a paper-media oil filter (PF64). That would mean their 12 psi bypass setting is really equivalent to about a 15 psi bypass setting in a paper filter (approximate). Still falls short of the 22 psi recommended by GM.

I doubt if the Fram Ultra's superior media has more than a 20% resistance advantage over a PF64. So its GM's 22 psi spec that prevails.

High viscosity plays a role for sure here concerning how often bypass events occur at cold startup, for sure.
My PF64-application engine is on the small end of GM's oil mass flow rates compared to other PF64 applications (they put that same filter on big GM V8s and their V6's too). Mine is a 1.5L turbo-DI tiny one compared to the others.
Also, it uses thin 0w20 oil, so one might assume I don't need a 22 psi bypass unless it's -20F outside, right?!

Using 5w30 in a Corvette or Cadillac ATS with the bigger engines when its very cold outside, and you might have a bypass event.
Yet, there is the GM memo claiming the 22 psi spec applies to those small engines using thin 0w20.

 

[Patman]

I'm going to be sticking with the PF64 in my Corvette for a while, and since I will be switching over to the new dexos Mobil 1 0w40 ESP when it's available too, having that 22psi bypass could be even more crucial with that slightly thicker oil.

 

[oldmaninsc]

This is the bulletin being discussed at the Impala forum.

https://gm.oemdtc.com/2601/correct-repla...c-chevrolet-gmc

http://sandyblogs.com/techlink/?p=7627

One guy on the Impala forum who claims to be a "dealer tech" named Maven76 states he will only use a WIX 57502XP on his Impala which originally called for a PF63. His thinking is that most of the cross reference catalogs are wrong and this is the only non AC Delco filter with the correct bypass setting.

http://www.impalaforums.com/chevy-impala-9th-gen-discussion/1742258-oil-filters-expensive-2.html

I've been using the AC Delco PF63 (non ecore) on my Impala since I bought it. It supposedly has the lower bypass setting. The couple of times the dealership did change the oil they used a PF63E. I bought a case of the PF63 on ebay and only have 3 or 4 left. After that I'd probably go with the Wix 57502XP recommended.

 

[webfors]

Anyone know the efficiency rating on the PF64?

For the 6-7k mile OCI I'm not concerned about a nitrile vs silicon ADBV. I do like the top end bypass design, when there is concern about bypass events.

The PF64 is constructed quite nicely. Certainly not a bargain filter IMO.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc
One guy on the Impala forum who claims to be a "dealer tech" named Maven76 states he will only use a WIX 57502XP
You don't need the "XP" version, since it doesn't filter very well. Low efficiency rating. I'd go with the Wix 57502 though, not bad for filtering. Fram Racing oil filters are too expensive, but actually very good, and they have the 22 psi bypass we want.

Originally Posted By: webfors
Anyone know the efficiency rating on the PF64?
Its got a paper filter media, not the better glass fiber & paper blend like the Wix and Fram Racing HP18 has. Very doubtful the PF64 filters better with that design.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: webfors
This filter was on my ATS, maybe 300km. They dealer put the wrong oil in the ATS so I swapped it out, hence the mileage on the filter.

I'll admit, I used to be a big filter snob, and probably still am. I wasn't expecting much from an ACDelco.

However, this is a really well made filter. Pleats were tight and strong all around up to the seam.

ADBV was pliable, the can was quite thick. Overall it was heavy and held a lot of oil.

Looks like a wix design with the top end bypass. Can anyone confirm the manufacturer of this filter?

If GM really does have a 22 psi bypass on this filter, is there an aftermarket equivalent?

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/twpjd1nojr5jcvc/AAAM7D38_2pprMmcCCPsWtN_a?dl=0

I really like that by pass valve.
Great C&P. Thanks.

 

[webfors]

Update:

most recent C&P of this filter has torn media.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4709081#Post4709081

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: webfors
So what are your thoughts on the 22psi bypass spec? The PF64 has *52 pleats*. I can't imagine the XG10060 having more flow capabilities with half the pleats to compensate for a 9-12psi bypass. I'm thinking I should get the PF64 back on there and take the up on their offer to swap the oil out again as a result of the 'clerical error'.


Most quickie lube shops aren't going to care or even fully understand bypass psi like GM does and we do, so a lot of cars will just dumb it down to whatever fits. But we can do better:

Hastings LF630 with a similar bypass psi of 20 psi, close enough.
Same bypass psi for Balwin B7422 as the Hastings, so either is the same here.
Fram Racing HP18 has a 22 psi bypass (and a screen over the bypass valve, very cool, very sturdy oil filter).

If you can go oversize slightly, the Wix 57502 and 51372 both have a 22 psi bypass valve.
(Notice the Wix 57060 is the right size, but it's bypass psi is too low at only 12 psi.)
Fram Racing HP19 is oversize, 22 psi bypass.
AC-Delco PF63E is oversize with a 22 psi bypass.

Of all the ones above, Wix has the most efficient filtering, but they are oversize, so can't be used by all if interference issues are there.
Fram Racing oil filters do OK on filtering efficiency, 94% at 20 microns, not too bad, so a good but expensive choice.
Hastings and Baldwin might be using a nitrile ADBV instead of the desired silicone ADBV the Wix and Fram Racing oil filters have.
AC-Delco PF64 (and PF63E oversized one) has nitrile ADBV and I think they have paper-only media, not great really.

For the nice Cadillac ATS, a very expensive car deserving of the best-constructed oil filter with a correct size & bypass psi (22 psi), I'd just get the Fram Racing HP18 (amazon or Summit Racing online maybe). Certainly filters better than a PF64, and built stronger too, with a silicone ADBV too.

I like the high 22 psi bypass, although Fram Ultra has the best media. Can't use a Fram Ultra due to bypass psi though!

references:

http://www.fram.com/media/1075/fram-racing-filter-sell-sheet.pdf
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4326934/
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/att...f-pf64-pf48.pdf



The WIX website lookup reports WL10290/XP as the filter for my application, and it does indeed have the 22psi bypass spec. Any reason this wouldn't be a solid choice? Do we have C&P's of this filter?

 

[webfors]

I think increasing the size, where it can be accommodated, makes sense. In that case the Wix 57502 might just be the perfect filter for this application.

What's the filtering efficiency rating of that filter?

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: webfors
I think increasing the size, where it can be accommodated, makes sense. In that case the Wix 57502 might just be the perfect filter for this application. What's the filtering efficiency rating of that filter?

Originally Posted By: webfors
The WIX website lookup reports WL10290/XP as the filter for my application, and it does indeed have the 22psi bypass spec. Any reason this wouldn't be a solid choice? Do we have C&P's of this filter?


The existence of WL10290 is news to me. Wonder what the "WL" prefix means?
I think a few weeks ago it didn't pop up on Wix's website as the direct PF64 replacement. This may be new. Most online parts sources don't list it, and partstech.com says its "out of stock", which means they intend to have it soon.
Wix filters are usually very good since they use the desired silicone ADBV and they typically have 95% at 20 microns 4548-12 ratings, which is good.
I would not use an "XP" Wix since that model has notoriously poor 4548-12 efficiency, but they are built well at least. Just a regular Wix is OK, not the XP one.
(All Wixes are not known to tear like Purolators and AC-Delco PF64's do.)

Agreed if you have room for it the Wix 57502, it is a good PF64 and PF63E replacement.

 

[Patman]

Why would the XP have poor efficiency when the regular one is good? Isn't the XP supposed to be their better filter?

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: Patman
Why would the XP have poor efficiency when the regular one is good? Isn't the XP supposed to be their better filter?


Wix doesn't list the nominal or beta ratings for the XP. That tells you something.

It appears the XP is not built for efficiency, when compared to the regular Wix offerings.

 

[Patman]

That certainly seems odd, but I guess I shouldn't complain that their lower cost offering actually is a more efficient filter

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Patman
Why would the XP have poor efficiency when the regular one is good? Isn't the XP supposed to be their better filter?

"Better" must mean something different to WIX. Look up thier Tech Support contact info on their website and give them a shout for some tech info. Be prepared for tight lips.

 

[Patman]

Since the NAPA Gold filters are made by Wix, I just checked the NAPA filter lookup and they have versions of this filter too! The NAPA Gold part number is 100290, NAPA Platinum is 4100290, NAPA Silver is 3100290 and Proselect is 2100290.