4L80E build

Yeah. I imagine both. The sun gear has some wear on the faces as well. Plus there was a little metal debris in that area.

Thought it may have been a lube issue at first since I drove this setup in the winter and oil temps would rarely be above 100F (no oil thermostat). This is something I'll likely fix. Oil temps never got above 160. It's just been so [censored] hot here in DFW the last few weeks that I haven't wanted to pull the tranny.

I sat and read through the entire thread and see some things I wish I had known before hand.

Ill be going through checking the end play a bit more thoroughly. Have to get it all together to drive out west next month. I'm currently trying to source parts and build a parts list.
 
Alright.... So i've torn my 4L80 apart and finally got my new planetaries in. Setting end play and I'm having a frustrating time...

I've rollarized the output shaft.Install everything up to the center support in the case and get the beveled snap ring in. with my dial indicator screwed into the case (extremely firm/not moving), I notice the output shaft has lateral play in it. It can wiggle side to side enough to make my dial indicator move by ~5 thou. This makes it extremely difficult to get any confidence in what I'm measuring. I can visually see that the output shaft has a little play. Trying my best to pull straight up on it shows 0 to 5 thou of end play. This leads me to think it's too tight (my first attempt with the stack up being the same as what I pulled out gave me ~20-30 thou end play depending on how much the shaft wiggled side to side).

I tried using a screw driver in the hole in the case to try to pry up. This just tilts the output shaft a bit sideways as well.

As a note, I installed the sonnax anti walk out bushing (upside down, with red loctite, to locate the shim and bearing on the output shaft). It doesn't seem like excessive play, but there is some side to side play that screws with my end play adjustment. I'm going to call it a night since I need to wake in 5 hours for work. Curious if this is normal and I just need to do my best to limit the side to side wiggle when checkign end play..
 
Thanks. I'll give it a go today. At least there's nothing obviously wrong. I'm not sure how 2 pry bars might help, seems like it would just wiggle it the other way then but I think if I flip the case upside down, it's easiest to pull straight up.

I was hoping there's something you can measure on the center support to get a more consistent reading but everywhere I measured didn't budge at all.
 
Got the rear end play into spec. 5 thou. Since my shims are 10 thou apart, it's either 5 thou or 15 thou that I can get.

I ordered the "billet rollerized forward hub" from jakes performance and they gave me a sonnax 34322-02K. Before I even install the bearing, I have 0 end play between the direct clutch drum and the forward hub. No bearing installed at all... Extremely infuriating because their instructions state that "no machining is required for typical installation".

I also measured the reaction planetary to center support and got ~17 thou end play, so i'm ordering shims to tighten that up.

I do not know what to do about this sonnax forward hub though. I don't have the ability to machine anything.
 
Where is the Sonnax hitting?

I will say that Sonnax stuff is usually really well made, so I'm wondering if there's something non-stock different modded than they expected.
 
Originally Posted by JonathanV
Got the rear end play into spec. 5 thou. Since my shims are 10 thou apart, it's either 5 thou or 15 thou that I can get.

I ordered the "billet rollerized forward hub" from jakes performance and they gave me a sonnax 34322-02K. Before I even install the bearing, I have 0 end play between the direct clutch drum and the forward hub. No bearing installed at all... Extremely infuriating because their instructions state that "no machining is required for typical installation".

I also measured the reaction planetary to center support and got ~17 thou end play, so i'm ordering shims to tighten that up.

I do not know what to do about this sonnax forward hub though. I don't have the ability to machine anything.


.005" will work well.

Sonnax 34322-02K does not sit on the Main Shaft like the factory hub......Therefore eliminating the endplay in the Direct Drum & the need to adjust it. I haven't used or tested this set-up so I don't have an opinion.
 
You're correct. It does not sit on the main shaft. The "snout" is much shorter than OEM hub, before the bearing is installed too. I assume this takes all the thrust load off the main shaft and instead puts it on the direct drum.

I'm going to call tomorrow and verify. It makes me uneasy

The instructions claim that you just install it and measure front end play
 
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Originally Posted by JonathanV
You're correct. It does not sit on the main shaft. The "snout" is much shorter than OEM hub, before the bearing is installed too. I assume this takes all the thrust load off the main shaft and instead puts it on the direct drum.

I'm going to call tomorrow and verify. It makes me uneasy

The instructions claim that you just install it and measure front end play


It redirects the front unit thrust load to the Direct Drum which is grounded to the Sun Gear Shaft then onto the Sun Gear itself.

Without a way for the end user to machine & custom fit the rollerization of the Forward Hub.....This is most likely the best compromise available to you.
 
Question, I got my shims to shim the reaction carrier to the center support. Should I be measuring this end play with the sprag removed from the reaction carrier? I think the sprag is gripping and helping hold the reaction up right when I let go. When I remove the sprag, I get consistent end play numbers, but its much larger than with the sprag installed. Currently have 5 shims installed and a new thrust washer from the output shaft and measure ~ 40 thou.

Edit: Sorry.. Alcohol seems to have stopped my ability to check my gauge adn realize it's mm and not thou. 0.4 mm = 15 thou... Right on the money. lmao. First question still stands, though.

Edit 2: I swear I remember seeing i want 15 thou here, but there's no way if I had 17 thou. Digging through this 40 page thread to try and find the suggested clearance now

Edit 3: Found your post from earlier:
Rear Unit End-play: .003" to .005" (Rollerized Output)
2. Reaction Carrier to Center Support End-play: .008" to .015"......(.015" being ideal with the Brass Thrust)
3. Forward Clutch Hub to Direct Drum: .005" to .008" (Rollerized)
4. Front End-play: .002" to .005" looser than Rear Unit end-play

Looks like I want 15 thou since I have brass thrust, but will need to go re-check the rear unit end play since it seems like it changes once I mess with the reaction carrier to center support end play. Yay my ramblings...
 
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Let me just say this and I'm not bad mouthing sonnax. The tech guy I talked to at sonnax told me that he thinks they released them way to early as more people return them than use them. I returned mine and rollerized a stock one( see thread)
 
I really hope I don't have to
frown.gif
I don't have access to a lathe. So if this doesn't work, I'm out the money and will just have to run a stock unrollerized forward and hope. I'm curious why most people end up returning them.

After sending the reaction carrier to end play to 12 thou, I seem to have no rear end play (i get the gauge to wiggle ~2-3 thou), so it looks like I get to try to set that again lol. Didn't realize I should've done reaction carrier end play first.

Edit: On the plus side, a single shim change got me to 8 thou of end play. Since the smallest shim difference is 13 thou, I can stick with 8 or with 21 thou of end play. So 8 it is. Now to test fit the rest of the transmission to check front end play. Here's to hoping somethign works well
smile.gif
 
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Jon I'm no tranny expert at all but if you read my build you are having the same problem that I had. IMHO they will not work in the 80E if you read they are claiming to work in several different trannies. Sonnax even had me send them pics of their hub in my height gauge and the same pics of a stock hub in the height gauge. As stated before I'm no expert. I rollerised the stock hub and the rest of the stack up went like clock work. I'm not going to name any names here but the tech dude I was dealing with was pretty knowledgeable of why I couldn't make it work. The problem with rollerizing a stock hub is that all these builders will tell you to find a couple different bearing numbers to rollerize a stock hub but you can't find any stock of any of these bearings any where. I used the same bearing that comes with your sonnax hub. You gotta also keep in the back of your mind that even in the bones stock configuration these trannies could get the snot beat out of them and still go 200,000 miles. Most of the cores that we are pulling are coming out of ranch duallies that are beat to a pulp with no evidence that the tranny has ever been pulled.
 
Right, it's true. I would like to make this work if I can, since it is stronger.

It wasn't clear to me what exactly was your problem with the sonnax hub. Was it that you could not get the front end play dialed in? I threw everything together and just checked front end play, seems like I have 60 thou end play with a 60 thou pump shim.

I had no end play between the forward hub and the direct drum. This seems to be intentional for the hub. Perhaps I have an updated version? As of right now, I don't see any reason why i can't run the sonnax forward hub. I can shim the front end play into spec.
 
Jon go to the bottom of page 15 that is where the trouble started. I sent the tech I was dealing with a link to this build. And the next conversation with him was when he told me that they were being returned left and right. Sonnax is king imho but why the heck didn't they build one to the dimensions that all of these builders have been using for years!!!!!? That whole dammed deal was a big bummer for me because at that point I had convinced my self that I had screwed something up farther down in the stack. Once I reverted back to a stock hub everything went very smooth.
 
Refer to my post about checking front unit endplay!!! The Input/Turbine shaft floats in the O/D Carrier!!!! You can easily end-up with NO endplay & not know it.

Edit......There should only be 20 pages to this thread
 
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Cline, I saw that note of the floating shaft. I was quite methodical about checking it. Used a small pry bar to push back on the overdrive unit while pulling on the input shaft to insure it was against the snap ring. I then released pry bar and zeroed the gauge. Pulled shaft the rest of the way to measure front end play. Did this several times and results were consistent. Fwiw when I pushed the shaft all the way in, it looked like it floats and has roughly 10 thou of play before you hit the snap ring if you're not careful. This is the only end play measurement I was completely confident in since you can see every thing so easily whe the transmission is upside down.


P10,
I found your section showing how you couldn't even get the front pump on because it was so much longer. Thankfully I did not have this issue. Everything seemed to stack up quite well once I finally realized I was being an idiot and using a mm gauge instead of my thou gauge.

Using a ~110 thou front pump shim, I achieve 10 thou of end play. I will double check it all again upon final assembly but the mock up seems good. The pump shim seems to be bigger than expected for some reason, and I cannot answer why. Maybe I'll pull the drum back out and make sure everything is kosher. It has the brass thrust washer underneath it and the bearing on top (butts up against the direct drum).

Fwiw, when I was in here the first time, I needed a similarly large front pump shim to get end play into spec too.
 
How's the captured torrington bearing in the O/D carrier? The one you remove the pinions to access? I usually replace that bearing because high failure rate in high mileage units.
Any scoring on the O/D sun gear that rides against the above bearing?

Sonnax may have Overcorrected the install height of the Forward Hub for all I know? P10 had no front endplay & you have excessive endplay with yours.

If no problems are found in the stack....You may need a thicker thrust on the Forward Hub, I don't like running the thicker selectables on the back of the pump because it locates the Overrun & Forward Clutch sealing rings to far out of position.

GM didn't machine the Sun Gear Shaft or the Direct Drum in accordance to effect Front Endplay, Now....With the Sonnax Hub....It directly affects it!
 
I will disassemble the hub and see if I have a thicker thrust washer I can put behind it.

Do you have a limit for your front pump shim?


I'll go through the stack up and just double verify I did nothing dumb like forget a washer (I did it last night but I was tired, so it doesn't hurt to check again).

Unfortunately I don't have a nice way to measure the height of the stack up to the new forward hub like P10. I can swap back to the OEM hub and see my "total end play" difference. I do know that when I went through it the first time, I couldn't achieve proper front end play (too loose) and found sonnax thrust washers that were thicker and were able to bring it closer, but it did still require a fairly large selectable washer.

I'm not sure where the wear would be coming from that would cause the front end play to be so loose.
 
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