Hehehehe...it's 10:10pm here now and it's 60F. Got to hot in the house and I had to open some windows.
-45C is on its way
- Thread starter SPITMAN
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No, it doesn't!!!!!
English or Metric
I'm in NYC. It's been 10F +or- 10 degrees in either direction for the last couple of weeks, and we've been bitching all the way. I've done upstate NY, and the worst I saw was -14F. I don't think I could deal with -45F. I just can't get my head around that one.
English or Metric
I'm in NYC. It's been 10F +or- 10 degrees in either direction for the last couple of weeks, and we've been bitching all the way. I've done upstate NY, and the worst I saw was -14F. I don't think I could deal with -45F. I just can't get my head around that one.
The weather forecasts I'm seeing for Alberta aren't quite as scary as what Spitman is reporting. Environment Canada is projecting -35ºC for Tuesday and it is currently -28ºC. The current wind chill is -42ºC, but wind chill doesn't bother oil in an engine, so who cares.
My question is: Will the Petro Canada Maximum 5w30, Auto-Rx cleaning oil in my engine stand up to the projected cold? What do these numbers really tell us about its cold weather performance?
Kinematic Viscosity
cSt @ 40ºC 64
cSt @ 100ºC 10.8
SUS @ 100ºF 297
SUS @ 210ºF 62
Viscosity Index 160
Cold Cranking Viscosity
cP @ ºC/ºF
5000 @ -30/-22
Pour Point ºC/ºF -42/-44
Borderline Pumping Viscosity
cP @ ºC/ºF
17940 @ -35/-31
Sulphated Ash, % wt. 0.8
Total Base No. 6.6
My question is: Will the Petro Canada Maximum 5w30, Auto-Rx cleaning oil in my engine stand up to the projected cold? What do these numbers really tell us about its cold weather performance?
Kinematic Viscosity
cSt @ 40ºC 64
cSt @ 100ºC 10.8
SUS @ 100ºF 297
SUS @ 210ºF 62
Viscosity Index 160
Cold Cranking Viscosity
cP @ ºC/ºF
5000 @ -30/-22
Pour Point ºC/ºF -42/-44
Borderline Pumping Viscosity
cP @ ºC/ºF
17940 @ -35/-31
Sulphated Ash, % wt. 0.8
Total Base No. 6.6
How much does a block heater increase oil temperature? If the ambient air temperature is -35ºC what will the temperature of block heated oil be in the pan?
45C I understand but -45C is outside my terms of reference. Bit scary to be honest!!
Patman
Staff member
This is something that probably varies a lot depending on the engine design I bet. I will test it out when I get a 97 Corvette, since they come with block heaters standard in Canada, plus they have a digital readout for both oil and coolant temperature (and transmission fluid too, cool!)
-33ºC outside right now. Our high speed Internet connection is Really Really slow! Is it possible the cold even slows that down?
The oil in my top up bottle of PC Maximum 5w30 is flowing a bit like molasses, but the heated block is warm to the touch ( not hot, just warm). The oil in the 3 litre sump feels like its about 5-10ºC between my fingers. Environment Canada is now projecting a -39ºC low for Wednesday
. I guess we'll see how maximum PC Maximum is.
The oil in my top up bottle of PC Maximum 5w30 is flowing a bit like molasses, but the heated block is warm to the touch ( not hot, just warm). The oil in the 3 litre sump feels like its about 5-10ºC between my fingers. Environment Canada is now projecting a -39ºC low for Wednesday
Did the 'freezer test' over night (outside @ -32C / -24F) with 4 different oils. In order of most fluid to thickest:
Castrol GC 0W30
Mobil 1 5W30
Pennzoil 5W30 (dyno...)
Petro Canada Duron 5W40 (synthetic)
Disappointed with the 5W40 Duron...thought it would be a little more viscous at those temperatures. Very noticeable delay in oil pressure build-up in a '90 Taurus SHO with this oil.
Castrol GC 0W30
Mobil 1 5W30
Pennzoil 5W30 (dyno...)
Petro Canada Duron 5W40 (synthetic)
Disappointed with the 5W40 Duron...thought it would be a little more viscous at those temperatures. Very noticeable delay in oil pressure build-up in a '90 Taurus SHO with this oil.
Two numbers stand out:
CCS = 5,000 Poise at -30 C
MRV = 17,940 cP @ -35 C
For a gasoline motor, Esso recommends a CCS of 2,000 - 3,000 Poise. The SAE J300 spec usually recommends a max CCS of around 6,600 Poise at -30 C for a 5W and 6,200 Poise at -35 C for a 0W.
The absolute MRV value is 60,000 cP, at which the oil ceases to flow. So it looks like at least for the test point down to -35 C, you should be fine.
FWIW the Esso XD-3 heavy duty diesel oils have the following numbers:
CCS at -35 C:
Esso XD-3 0w30 5,900 Poise
Esso XD-3 0W-40 5,900 Poise
MRV at -35 C:
Esso XD-3 0w30 11,200 cP
Esso XD-3 0W-40 14,900 cP
MRV at -40 C:
Esso XD-3 0w30 22,600 cP
Esso XD-3 0W-40 28,600 cP
You should be ok. Hope this helps.
Jerry
The Petro Canada Duron 5W-40, much like the Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40, has been reformulated to deal with EGR and high diesel soot for the new CI-4 rating.
It seems to have made these oils far thicker in cold temps than they used to be.
Jerry
Thanks heyjay!
Did ya hear we're go'n down to -40C?
Pray for us.
Did ya hear we're go'n down to -40C?
Pray for us.
Check this out:http://www.weather.ca/weather/cities/can/pages/CAAB0124.htm
Now now boys, you don't have to brag. I also know what -40 C and -45 C feels like!
In temps colder than -20 C, my cat refuses to go outside. I'm starting to wonder if my cat is just perhaps a tad smarter than I am!
Jerry
In temps colder than -20 C, my cat refuses to go outside. I'm starting to wonder if my cat is just perhaps a tad smarter than I am!
Jerry
I've never, ever seen less than -11, but have seen quite a few 45s.
I refuse to believe that there are two 45s in the Celsius (or the farenheit) scales.
How do you people insulate your houses, heat your houses, stop water pipes from freezing, stop fuel from gelling, do you have a spare room instead of a refrigerator, how do you keep your beer warm enough to drink, does antifreeze actualy freeze if left without a block heater ?
Seriously, my mind is boggling.
I refuse to believe that there are two 45s in the Celsius (or the farenheit) scales.
How do you people insulate your houses, heat your houses, stop water pipes from freezing, stop fuel from gelling, do you have a spare room instead of a refrigerator, how do you keep your beer warm enough to drink, does antifreeze actualy freeze if left without a block heater ?
Seriously, my mind is boggling.
Lots of talk about the weather. To swap back and forth between metric and imperial temps. use the following formulae:
5/9(F-32)=C
9/5C+32=F F=farenheit, C=celcius
for a ball park measure to convert celcius to farenheit just say "double it and add 32". You'll be close enough to know whether you need your toque or your ball cap
5/9(F-32)=C
9/5C+32=F F=farenheit, C=celcius
for a ball park measure to convert celcius to farenheit just say "double it and add 32". You'll be close enough to know whether you need your toque or your ball cap
1. Insulate the house: For a long time we didn't pay the "true" cost of energy - actually we still don't - so folks didn't worry about it. Just used a bigger furnace.
Only in the late 80's did folks routinely start using 2x6 wall constuction (R factor 20) and more insulation in the attic (R factor 40 or better). More also started using triple-pane windows, which also helps quite a bit.
An increasingly popular home construction method is ICF (Insulated Concrete Form) with a polystyrene "form" used to shape the cement pour for the home exterior walls. The finished "R" value is R 25-30.
My house is 8 years old and I was picky during construction: 2x6 exterior walls, and 2 inches of polystyrene foam insulation on the exterior, covered with vinyl siding.
The foam helps keep the frost away from the walls, so I (Knock on wood) haven't had any drywall pops. Most homes around here will experience drywall screw/nail pops within 5 years, due to the extreme cold conditions.
I put two layers of Dow R-38 fiberglass insulation in the attic, and used All Weather Windows triple-pane with dual Low E coatings and dual Argon gas fill.
As you can imagine, the house is so tight, you would have a serious health problem. I use a HRV (Heat Recovery Ventilator) to exchange stale indoor air with fresh outdoor air.
2. Most folks use natural gas heat, though the bloody stuff has almost tripled in price over the past 8 years. I live in a rural area and most of my neighbors use outdoor wood-fired boilers. The wood-fired boiler is used to heat the house, the domestic hot water, and outbuildings like garage/shop/barn, etc.
I went with a coal-fired outdoor furnace. It costs me about $400/year to operate. I like coal as it's still cheap, you can stockpile it, and not as much monkeying around with sawing and splitting firewood. For backup I have a fuel-oil furnace.
As you can imagine, most furnaces are sized quite large to make up for the coldest days. A 1,500 sq ft house usually has +120,000 BTU furnace.
3. Preventing frozen pipes. That can be difficult. The "frost line" here can dip +6 feet below grade. You can try running 2-3 inches of polystyrene foam insulation on top of the pipe before backfilling.
Pipes should never be run against exterior walls, always design a home with centrally-located plumbing (Kitchen, baths, etc) so the pipes are never exposed to cold walls.
You can always try electric-heating pipe wraps. Those are expensive to operate and can give out when you need them most.
4. Fuel gelling. The regular #2 diesel is solid as a brick around -20 C. The bulk fuel dealers around here offer #1 fuel in winter, good to about -30 C. It's foolish to operate diesel equipment here without putting in a good anti-gel treat. I use PRI for fuel conditioning and it works well.
Gasoline has problems too. You can get moisture/condensation in the fuel tank and your fuel line will freeze. A good anti-ice treat works wonders.
5.Spare room for "freezer." HAHA! Seriously, if you have a porch or veranda, you could use it to keep the meat frozen in cold temps. That comes in handy if you happen to shoot a nice deer or moose! Yum!
6. Keep the beer in the house! It can and does freeze if left outside. Or just drink vodka.
7.Pure antifreeze actually DOES freeze - technically it "gells" - around -30 C. A mixture of 50% water and 50% coolant is good to about -35 C. A mixture of 40% water and 60% coolant should be good to -50 C. But that block heater sure does help?
So, moving to Canada anytime soon??
Jerry
Well, there is "frozen" and there is FROZEN.
Seriously, like a lot of things, if you have no frame of reference, you cannot understand. First hand experience is the best teacher in such an environment.
I suggest Doug Hillary and you pay a visit in January. It will be FUN. We'll do a lot of outdoorsy activities at -40 C like ride on the SkiDoo snowmobile, cross country ski, maybe snowshoeing.
Jerry
Kestas
Staff member
Oil issues aside, all automotive component testing only goes down to -40°C. Below that, you're on your own. Don't expect your car to perform without problems below that temperature.
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