06 Tundra, UOA #17, 5332mi, M1 EP 5W-30 SN

[btanchors]

Move along, nothing to see here

UOA Number 17 on my 2006 Tundra. The first one on Mobil 1 EP, SN version. I have also discontinued performing the Particle Counts. I will probably perform one more UOA on this vehicle, then will stop doing them on this vehicle.

Comments always welcome.

 

[The Critic]

The TBN is much lower than the SM versions after the same amount of mileage. I wonder if this is due to the lower calcium.

I wonder if this is a sign that the SN version may not be capable of the same service interval.

Did your driving conditions change?

 

[Artem]

Why do you keep fluctuating from 5 to 10k OCIs? Why not just keep doing 10k OCIs since it seems to be working well for you.

 

[buster]

Just an observation, but so far the M1 SN oils seem to show lower TBN starting and ending. Fe seems to be trending lower.

Tbn seems low for 5k miles. Not sure what to make of it. You can see that over the years they have continually lower calcium. Used to be over 3k ppm. Tbn at that time was 12. So can this SN version really hold up to 15k? Mobil says it can.

 

[The Critic]

I think the new M1 0w-20 SN has a starting TBN of about 8. Is this also true with the Mobil 1 EP oils?

 

[buster]

The EP VOA here shows a TBN of 9.3 and Tan of 3.4. Tbn retention is supposed to be better. Can an oil run a 2.6 Tbn for 5k more miles?

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2258202#Post2258202

 

[chubbs1]

BTanchors, First off thanks for another UOA to look at! Second, what the heck are they (XOM) doing to this oil? This is an "extended drain" oil but the additive pack looks to be getting even weaker as time goes on. Are you going to run this one out to 10k just to see if it holds up? It would be comforting to see the 10k analysis.

M1 0w40 is still great, I have made up my mind to switching over to strictly Pennzoil products, this helped.

Time to get my flame suit on.

 

[tig1]

Is this an oil sample only or did you drain and refill?

 

[btanchors]

I did perform an oil change after I took this sample. I intend to go longer on the currently installed oil (also M1 EP 5W-30 SN), so we'll see if the lower TBN is a trend with this new SN rated oil, or just an anomoly with the previous batch.

 

[JAG]

All is well but I don't think they formulated this oil to last 15,000 miles without allowing deposits and/or extra wear/corrosion. If I'm wrong, they put something awesome in the EP oils that is non-metallic (invisible in UOAs) that makes the oil do a good job longer than I think it can. I doubt it though.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: JAG
All is well but I don't think they formulated this oil to last 15,000 miles without allowing deposits and/or extra wear/corrosion. If I'm wrong, they put something awesome in the EP oils that is non-metallic (invisible in UOAs) that makes the oil do a good job longer than I think it can. I doubt it though.


As we know, UOAs like these we see here can't completely tell us the formulation of oils. No doubt more is unsaid than recorded for us. For example Blackstone can't even distinguish between mineral and synthetic basestocks, much less the formulation of the base stock itself. Also, not all TBNs are created equal. Some oils retain their TBN much longer than others. That would be a good question for "Tom from NJ" to answer for us.

 

[Tom NJ]

As was noted, oil analysis only shows some of the additives, and even then not the specific type of additive as there are different forms of calcium and magnesium detergents & dispersants. Base oils and anti-oxidants contribute greatly to oil life, and neither show up in a metal scan.

It can be very misleading to try to predict or judge an oil's performance from a VOA or a few spot UOAs. Without knowing the complete formulation or seeing the full engine test data we are mostly speculating. M1-EP is XOM's flagship product and I doubt they would risk 35 years of reputation and leadership in the field just to save a few cents per quart.

Time will tell how the new formulations behave in the field. In the mean time I would not hesitate to take the new SN EP to a 15k OCI based on ExxonMobil's word.

Tom NJ

 

[JAG]

TBN is 2.8. What would it have been after 10k more miles?

The EP oils do not have a warranty for keeping engines clean for 15k miles. I'm confident that engine failures will NOT be a problem but staying clean is my doubt lies. I've already seen other M1 oils not keep my VW engine clean at much shorter OCIs than 15k so I have no blind faith in their 35 years of reputation and leadership.

 

[Artem]

I feel the same. The TBN here is pretty low and hard to imagine what it would look like @ 15,000 miles of use.

Like some already said, i'm sure the oil will keep lubricating the engine but will mostly likely start leaving behind deposits like crazy near the end of the run. Do that for 100,000 miles and the engine is not going to look so good (making the assumption based on the results from this UOA).

 

[Y_K]

I have done more than 300k of 20k ODIs on simple Ford modular V8 engines twice with M1 5W-30 EP. 70% highway. Never did a single UOA, although was ready to get to the lab several times - just never got to do it. Survived all the hysteria with the base-stock changes, additive changes, iron meteorite sized particles, etc.. Now running a pilot town car with Chevron 5W-20 Syn with similar protocol. Too early to tell, that car has only 220k on its odometer.
Sometimes it is better to avoid suffering from the little knowledge

 

[Artem]

Nice... running an oil rated for 15k out to 20k? You got nerve.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Artem
Nice... running an oil rated for 15k out to 20k? You got nerve.


Our own "fisskier" uses M1 0-20 for 20K in engines calling for 5-30. Has had no problems going 300K. A friend does 15-20K with M1 5-30 in a chevy 5.3. He just turned 300K with the valve covers never being removed. Would I go that long? Nope, because 10K has been my OCI habit for so long it just feels comfortable.

 

[Y_K]

That particular engine is easy. I would not do this with Nissans

 

[Indydriver]

What can't be denied by this long consistent history is that boron and moly--two traditional add pack heroes--have been cut in half. I have a hard time being encouraged by that.

Are they relying on magnesium? A 50x increase? What's with that?

 

[buster]

Magnesium detergents help lower the ash content, but require the use of non metallic tbn systems according to this Infineum paper.

"Advanced additive technologies such as salicylate detergents, enhanced low S/P anti-wear and new antioxidant technologies."

Just take a look at some of the papers available on their website. I think it's called "Future Trends"