Royal Purple 0W40 worth it?
- Thread starter Engan
- Start date
- Status
Speaking of which...
Dear Mr. Jeep-Defending-Our-Country-From-Mobil-1:
I see you haven't yet responded directly to my points. I understand if they got lost in the shuffle. Here they are again:
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
The same guy posted the same pictures and said the same things here. It was thoroughly discussed. It looks impressive, but it says nothing. Here's a quick summary of why:
- There were no "before" measurements; only "after" measurements.
- The correct procedure is to perform each measurement several times and then analyze the numbers for statistical significance. None of this was done.
- The appearance of the cam lobes says nothing because a cam lobe that looks shiny and smooth can actually be MORE worn than one that looks rough and scuffed. Click here.
Moreover, even if the Royal Purple did perform better, that could be explained by the fact that that particular grade has more ZDDP than the particular grade of Mobil 1 that was used. This is because Mobil 1 5w-20 is made to meet API SM, whereas Royal Purple 5w-20 is not. In other words, it wouldn't be about which oil is "better;" it would simply reflect the fact that those two particular oils were designed for different purposes -- again, if the Royal Purple actually did do better, of which there is insufficient evidence.
This is a perfect example of how, regardless of what one might think from the abundance of testimonials, actual good evidence is difficult to find.
Since that post, you have taken us from the Mustang cam example to gear oil tests, copy-pasted articles from Royal Purple websites, pictures of drums of Royal Purple next to heavy machinery, and insinuations as to the motives of others. Every time one of your examples is critically undermined, you change to another one. I hope you understand that this is not a productive way to convince anyone. Let's take one thing at a time.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Dear Mr. Jeep-Defending-Our-Country-From-Mobil-1:
I see you haven't yet responded directly to my points. I understand if they got lost in the shuffle. Here they are again:
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
The same guy posted the same pictures and said the same things here. It was thoroughly discussed. It looks impressive, but it says nothing. Here's a quick summary of why:
- There were no "before" measurements; only "after" measurements.
- The correct procedure is to perform each measurement several times and then analyze the numbers for statistical significance. None of this was done.
- The appearance of the cam lobes says nothing because a cam lobe that looks shiny and smooth can actually be MORE worn than one that looks rough and scuffed. Click here.
Moreover, even if the Royal Purple did perform better, that could be explained by the fact that that particular grade has more ZDDP than the particular grade of Mobil 1 that was used. This is because Mobil 1 5w-20 is made to meet API SM, whereas Royal Purple 5w-20 is not. In other words, it wouldn't be about which oil is "better;" it would simply reflect the fact that those two particular oils were designed for different purposes -- again, if the Royal Purple actually did do better, of which there is insufficient evidence.
This is a perfect example of how, regardless of what one might think from the abundance of testimonials, actual good evidence is difficult to find.
Since that post, you have taken us from the Mustang cam example to gear oil tests, copy-pasted articles from Royal Purple websites, pictures of drums of Royal Purple next to heavy machinery, and insinuations as to the motives of others. Every time one of your examples is critically undermined, you change to another one. I hope you understand that this is not a productive way to convince anyone. Let's take one thing at a time.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
*sniff* *sniff* who smells a troll?
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
To the OP, sorry this thread got so far off your subject! It started out so well...
Why are you apologizing? You're not the one at fault.
Since it was the OP's first post on the site, I was embarrassed for us all.
We do get threads hijacked here all the time, but hardly ever for a personal dispute that goes on for pages.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
To the OP, sorry this thread got so far off your subject! It started out so well...
Why are you apologizing? You're not the one at fault.
Since it was the OP's first post on the site, I was embarrassed for us all.
We do get threads hijacked here all the time, but hardly ever for a personal dispute that goes on for pages.
Originally Posted By: jeeprnovru
And here is the article from which the picture came......
http://www.royal-purple-industrial.com/compressor_tech/compressor_tech.html
RP makes good products, and synerlec goes into ALL of those products....my logic is irrefutable!
And im not defensive im getting angry and how hardheaded and resistant to fact and information you are.....People like you are the reason the world is the way it is....
wrong again buddy. you even used capital letters like you KNEW you were right. synerlec does NOT go into their new api sn certified oils...
And here is the article from which the picture came......
http://www.royal-purple-industrial.com/compressor_tech/compressor_tech.html
RP makes good products, and synerlec goes into ALL of those products....my logic is irrefutable!
And im not defensive im getting angry and how hardheaded and resistant to fact and information you are.....People like you are the reason the world is the way it is....
wrong again buddy. you even used capital letters like you KNEW you were right. synerlec does NOT go into their new api sn certified oils...
Last edited:
Here in the states Mobil 1 0w40 is cheaper, meets all the manufactures specs, so I don't really see a reason to use Royal Purple.
I know I have not seen Royal Purple 0w40 on any of the manufactures spec sheets, like Porsche, Mercedes etc. So it can't be as good.
I know I have not seen Royal Purple 0w40 on any of the manufactures spec sheets, like Porsche, Mercedes etc. So it can't be as good.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
I know I have not seen Royal Purple 0w40 on any of the manufactures spec sheets, like Porsche, Mercedes etc. So it can't be as good.
Slight correction, to be fair: it's not that Royal Purple 0w-40 can't be as good; it's that there's less evidence for how good it is.
I know I have not seen Royal Purple 0w40 on any of the manufactures spec sheets, like Porsche, Mercedes etc. So it can't be as good.
Slight correction, to be fair: it's not that Royal Purple 0w-40 can't be as good; it's that there's less evidence for how good it is.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
I know I have not seen Royal Purple 0w40 on any of the manufactures spec sheets, like Porsche, Mercedes etc. So it can't be as good.
Slight correction, to be fair: it's not that Royal Purple 0w-40 can't be as good; it's that there's less evidence for how good it is.
Finally, one of a few posts that addresses the OP's question!!!
There's little, if any, uoa data here on RP 0W-40. I would probably try it to see how it compared to M1 0W-40 in a $25 uoa, but I haven't seen the 0W-40 or 5W-40 in a retail store. Most of the RP uoa data on this site is for the xW-30.
-Dennis
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
I know I have not seen Royal Purple 0w40 on any of the manufactures spec sheets, like Porsche, Mercedes etc. So it can't be as good.
Slight correction, to be fair: it's not that Royal Purple 0w-40 can't be as good; it's that there's less evidence for how good it is.
Finally, one of a few posts that addresses the OP's question!!!
There's little, if any, uoa data here on RP 0W-40. I would probably try it to see how it compared to M1 0W-40 in a $25 uoa, but I haven't seen the 0W-40 or 5W-40 in a retail store. Most of the RP uoa data on this site is for the xW-30.
-Dennis
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Here in the states Mobil 1 0w40 is cheaper, meets all the manufactures specs, so I don't really see a reason to use Royal Purple.
I know I have not seen Royal Purple 0w40 on any of the manufactures spec sheets, like Porsche, Mercedes etc. So it can't be as good.
What are Amsoil, Redline and Schaeffer, chopped liver?
There are times when official blessing is cost prohibitive and too restrictive.
Here in the states Mobil 1 0w40 is cheaper, meets all the manufactures specs, so I don't really see a reason to use Royal Purple.
I know I have not seen Royal Purple 0w40 on any of the manufactures spec sheets, like Porsche, Mercedes etc. So it can't be as good.
What are Amsoil, Redline and Schaeffer, chopped liver?
There are times when official blessing is cost prohibitive and too restrictive.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Here in the states Mobil 1 0w40 is cheaper, meets all the manufactures specs, so I don't really see a reason to use Royal Purple.
I know I have not seen Royal Purple 0w40 on any of the manufactures spec sheets, like Porsche, Mercedes etc. So it can't be as good.
Just because an oil mfg does not pay to become certified/licensed through a car mfg for their OE oil spec does NOT indicate quality of the oil. You absolutely can not say with any truth behind it that just because RP has not paid to be licensed through Porsche, or MB, or whomever that Mobil 1( or any other brand )is a better oil because they did pay to get licensed/approved. Complete and utter hogwash when talking about the qaulity of the oil.
Ths is one of the most overblown criticiscms of ANY oil mfg there is on this site. The OE licensing thing is in part( a BIG part )a money making tactic for the car mfg. Paying to be licensed does NOT mean the oil is better than a non licensed brand. When it comes to Mobil 1 who has marketing deals to be the recommended oil it makes it even a less valid point( to me anwyay ).
Mobil 1 makes very good oils. Don't misunderstand my point. Being on the Porsche licensed/approved list in and of itself however does not make it a superior oil to ANY oil not on that same list.
I will list what info RP offers on their 0W-40 in the current online Product Data Sheet and then what is available from Mobil 1 in their current 0W-40 online Product Data Sheet to compare below. People can review at least some of the performance data...
Royal Purple 0W-40:
API Certified( SM - no Starburst )
Meets and/or exceeds European specs ACEA A3/B3-04
( no OE Licenses/Approvals )
D-445 Viscosity
cSt @ 40°C 79.9
cSt @ 100°C 14.3
D-2270 Viscosity Index 182
D-4684 Pumping Viscosities
cP @ -40°C 20,000
D-92 Flash Point °F 465
D-92 Fire Point °F 495
Mobil 1 0W-40:
API Certified( SL and SM - no Starburst)
Mobil 1 0W-40 meets or exceeds the requirements of ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
( Long list of OE Licenses/Approvals )
D-445 Viscosity
cSt @ 40°C 75
cSt @ 100°C 13.5
D-2270 Viscosity Index 185
D-4684 Pumping Viscosities
cP @ -40°C 31,000
D-92 Flash Point °C 230( °F 446 )
D-92 Fire Point °F Not Listed
Here in the states Mobil 1 0w40 is cheaper, meets all the manufactures specs, so I don't really see a reason to use Royal Purple.
I know I have not seen Royal Purple 0w40 on any of the manufactures spec sheets, like Porsche, Mercedes etc. So it can't be as good.
Just because an oil mfg does not pay to become certified/licensed through a car mfg for their OE oil spec does NOT indicate quality of the oil. You absolutely can not say with any truth behind it that just because RP has not paid to be licensed through Porsche, or MB, or whomever that Mobil 1( or any other brand )is a better oil because they did pay to get licensed/approved. Complete and utter hogwash when talking about the qaulity of the oil.
Ths is one of the most overblown criticiscms of ANY oil mfg there is on this site. The OE licensing thing is in part( a BIG part )a money making tactic for the car mfg. Paying to be licensed does NOT mean the oil is better than a non licensed brand. When it comes to Mobil 1 who has marketing deals to be the recommended oil it makes it even a less valid point( to me anwyay ).
Mobil 1 makes very good oils. Don't misunderstand my point. Being on the Porsche licensed/approved list in and of itself however does not make it a superior oil to ANY oil not on that same list.
I will list what info RP offers on their 0W-40 in the current online Product Data Sheet and then what is available from Mobil 1 in their current 0W-40 online Product Data Sheet to compare below. People can review at least some of the performance data...
Royal Purple 0W-40:
API Certified( SM - no Starburst )
Meets and/or exceeds European specs ACEA A3/B3-04
( no OE Licenses/Approvals )
D-445 Viscosity
cSt @ 40°C 79.9
cSt @ 100°C 14.3
D-2270 Viscosity Index 182
D-4684 Pumping Viscosities
cP @ -40°C 20,000
D-92 Flash Point °F 465
D-92 Fire Point °F 495
Mobil 1 0W-40:
API Certified( SL and SM - no Starburst)
Mobil 1 0W-40 meets or exceeds the requirements of ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
( Long list of OE Licenses/Approvals )
D-445 Viscosity
cSt @ 40°C 75
cSt @ 100°C 13.5
D-2270 Viscosity Index 185
D-4684 Pumping Viscosities
cP @ -40°C 31,000
D-92 Flash Point °C 230( °F 446 )
D-92 Fire Point °F Not Listed
Last edited:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
NHHEMI:
Correction to your Mobil 1 PDS: The flash point was listed in Celsius, which, when converted, is 446F.
Correction to your Mobil 1 PDS: The flash point was listed in Celsius, which, when converted, is 446F.
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Here in the states Mobil 1 0w40 is cheaper, meets all the manufactures specs, so I don't really see a reason to use Royal Purple.
I know I have not seen Royal Purple 0w40 on any of the manufactures spec sheets, like Porsche, Mercedes etc. So it can't be as good.
What are Amsoil, Redline and Schaeffer, chopped liver?
There are times when official blessing is cost prohibitive and too restrictive.
Good oils I'm sure, but I wouldn't go pouring a none spec'd oil into a $50k AMG motor.
Sorry I don't feel like doing the homework the oil company's should have done in the first place. If they want to be used in certain applications than they need to spend the money to show that they are capable of it, ie meeting manufactures specs.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Here in the states Mobil 1 0w40 is cheaper, meets all the manufactures specs, so I don't really see a reason to use Royal Purple.
I know I have not seen Royal Purple 0w40 on any of the manufactures spec sheets, like Porsche, Mercedes etc. So it can't be as good.
What are Amsoil, Redline and Schaeffer, chopped liver?
There are times when official blessing is cost prohibitive and too restrictive.
Good oils I'm sure, but I wouldn't go pouring a none spec'd oil into a $50k AMG motor.
Sorry I don't feel like doing the homework the oil company's should have done in the first place. If they want to be used in certain applications than they need to spend the money to show that they are capable of it, ie meeting manufactures specs.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Here in the states Mobil 1 0w40 is cheaper, meets all the manufactures specs, so I don't really see a reason to use Royal Purple.
I know I have not seen Royal Purple 0w40 on any of the manufactures spec sheets, like Porsche, Mercedes etc. So it can't be as good.
What are Amsoil, Redline and Schaeffer, chopped liver?
There are times when official blessing is cost prohibitive and too restrictive.
Good oils I'm sure, but I wouldn't go pouring a none spec'd oil into a $50k AMG motor.
Sorry I don't feel like doing the homework the oil company's should have done in the first place. If they want to be used in certain applications than they need to spend the money to show that they are capable of it, ie meeting manufactures specs.
You do know that it is extremely expensive to get certified/licensed right?
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Here in the states Mobil 1 0w40 is cheaper, meets all the manufactures specs, so I don't really see a reason to use Royal Purple.
I know I have not seen Royal Purple 0w40 on any of the manufactures spec sheets, like Porsche, Mercedes etc. So it can't be as good.
What are Amsoil, Redline and Schaeffer, chopped liver?
There are times when official blessing is cost prohibitive and too restrictive.
Good oils I'm sure, but I wouldn't go pouring a none spec'd oil into a $50k AMG motor.
Sorry I don't feel like doing the homework the oil company's should have done in the first place. If they want to be used in certain applications than they need to spend the money to show that they are capable of it, ie meeting manufactures specs.
You do know that it is extremely expensive to get certified/licensed right?
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Here in the states Mobil 1 0w40 is cheaper, meets all the manufactures specs, so I don't really see a reason to use Royal Purple.
I know I have not seen Royal Purple 0w40 on any of the manufactures spec sheets, like Porsche, Mercedes etc. So it can't be as good.
What are Amsoil, Redline and Schaeffer, chopped liver?
There are times when official blessing is cost prohibitive and too restrictive.
Good oils I'm sure, but I wouldn't go pouring a none spec'd oil into a $50k AMG motor.
Sorry I don't feel like doing the homework the oil company's should have done in the first place. If they want to be used in certain applications than they need to spend the money to show that they are capable of it, ie meeting manufactures specs.
You do know that it is extremely expensive to get certified/licensed right?
Yep, and engines are not to cheap either. More so the motors that spec 0w40, where not talking about GM v8's here where you can get a long block for $4k.
As a consumer why should I pay more for a supposedly premium product and just kind of hope it works based on some random data?
I'll pay a bit less for a product that in this case has the MB229.5 stamp on the back.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Here in the states Mobil 1 0w40 is cheaper, meets all the manufactures specs, so I don't really see a reason to use Royal Purple.
I know I have not seen Royal Purple 0w40 on any of the manufactures spec sheets, like Porsche, Mercedes etc. So it can't be as good.
What are Amsoil, Redline and Schaeffer, chopped liver?
There are times when official blessing is cost prohibitive and too restrictive.
Good oils I'm sure, but I wouldn't go pouring a none spec'd oil into a $50k AMG motor.
Sorry I don't feel like doing the homework the oil company's should have done in the first place. If they want to be used in certain applications than they need to spend the money to show that they are capable of it, ie meeting manufactures specs.
You do know that it is extremely expensive to get certified/licensed right?
Yep, and engines are not to cheap either. More so the motors that spec 0w40, where not talking about GM v8's here where you can get a long block for $4k.
As a consumer why should I pay more for a supposedly premium product and just kind of hope it works based on some random data?
I'll pay a bit less for a product that in this case has the MB229.5 stamp on the back.
Last edited:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
No problem.
Comically enough, the Canadian PDS is STILL different, even since they have updated the website.
Mobil 1 0W-40 Value
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40ºC 80
cSt @ 100ºC 14.3
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 187
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.2
HTHS Viscosity, mPa-s @ 150ºC, ASTM D 4683 3.6
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -54
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 236 (457F)
Density @ 15ºC kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.855
Comically enough, the Canadian PDS is STILL different, even since they have updated the website.
Mobil 1 0W-40 Value
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40ºC 80
cSt @ 100ºC 14.3
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 187
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.2
HTHS Viscosity, mPa-s @ 150ºC, ASTM D 4683 3.6
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -54
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 236 (457F)
Density @ 15ºC kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.855
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
You do know that it is extremely expensive to get certified/licensed right?
That sucks, but the fact remains that an oil with approvals has more to back it up than an oil without them.
Again, that doesn't mean it's better. It just means it's more of a known quantity.
You do know that it is extremely expensive to get certified/licensed right?
That sucks, but the fact remains that an oil with approvals has more to back it up than an oil without them.
Again, that doesn't mean it's better. It just means it's more of a known quantity.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Yep, and engines are not to cheap either. More so the motors that spec 0w40, where not talking about GM v8's here where you can get a long block for $4k.
As a consumer why should I pay more for a supposedly premium product and just kind of hope it works based on some random data?
I'll pay a bit less for a product that in this case has the MB229.5 stamp on the back.
Indeed. A replacement S62 for my M5 is $22,000 (hey, that's more than a whole Chevy Cruze!)
M1 0w40 meets the BMW LL-01 specification required for this engine.
It's not like the 5.4L in the Expedition which could be fixed locally for a small fraction of that.
Yep, and engines are not to cheap either. More so the motors that spec 0w40, where not talking about GM v8's here where you can get a long block for $4k.
As a consumer why should I pay more for a supposedly premium product and just kind of hope it works based on some random data?
I'll pay a bit less for a product that in this case has the MB229.5 stamp on the back.
Indeed. A replacement S62 for my M5 is $22,000 (hey, that's more than a whole Chevy Cruze!)
M1 0w40 meets the BMW LL-01 specification required for this engine.
It's not like the 5.4L in the Expedition which could be fixed locally for a small fraction of that.
Yep, my friend runs Royal Purple 5w30 in his truck, but its a 6L GM V8 I'm pretty sure any 5w30 on the shelf will be fine in it.
- Status
Similar threads
