More ruined cam followers using VW oils & VW OCI

[saaber1]

There are tons of these examples out there of people who followed VW/Audi's oil change interval specs and used VW's oils and they get very bad results in the 2.0 FSI engine. Just noticed these 2 examples in the last 2 days. Dealers' typically use syntec 5w40 but it varies by dealer.

This one was was at 57k miles and a piece of the cam follower shot out through the top of the engine. He did dealer changes every 7-10k. Cam is obviously shot.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4886940-57K-cam-follower-damage-1.7K-dollars-%28Pics%29

This one is at 42k miles and he used dealer changes every 10k. This follower is almost ready to let go. The owner caught it just in time.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4890662-Cam-follower-at-42k-miles

In contrast here is one at 38k posted recently where the oil was changed every 5k. Definitely not ideal, but much better. Motul 8100 was the oil I think:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4889696-Cam-Follower-62.467KM

This one was at 29k using a group V oil with high anti-wear additives changed every 5k:

Here is one at 70k that looks good for the miles. changed every 5k at the dealer.

 

[saberz]

Nice find, this was a common issue before changing their recommendations.

 

[aquariuscsm]

That cam looks really chewed up on the surface. Can an oil really cause that to happen,or is it a manufacturing defect in the cam/rollers?

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: Anies
Nice find, this was a common issue before changing their recommendations.

To clarify, VW's current recommendations are 10k with 502 oil which is what the top two examples ran. This is not an old issue which has been addressed. These are new posts this week from users who have had their oil changed at the dealer according to the manual. The UOA database clearly shows that 5k is about all the oils will hold up for (except for 95% highway use). These wear examples are consistent with that.

 

[sangyup81]

how in the world are these people in europe doing it?

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
That cam looks really chewed up on the surface. Can an oil really cause that to happen,or is it a manufacturing defect in the cam/rollers?

It is a poor design IMO but is directly related to lubrication. Similar to other flat tappet types, I would suspect we are talking about 200,000+ psi here. That is asking a lot from an oil, much less an oil broken down by fuel dilution.

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: sangyup81
how in the world are these people in europe doing it?

In Europe they run in lean-burn mode which likely greatly reduces fuel dilution. I believe in the U.S. we need to compensate by using oils more capable of withstanding fuel dilution's effects and using shorter OCIs.

 

[saberz]

My mistake, I figured it was the same as the gumming/sludging from befores due to the oil recommendations is all. Seems that the engines are very hard on the oil,

 

[Steve S]

Using GP V type syns at 5,000 adds up quick.

 

[buster]

Thanks for posting this. Clearly a bad engine design, but also related to lubrication.

saaber, are engines using RL holding up any better?

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Using GP V type syns at 5,000 adds up quick.

Not as quick as $1700-$3000 to replace cam plus unknown and unquantifiable collateral damage.

I calculate the difference to be around ($10-$8) $2/qt x 5 qts x 3 changes per year = $30/ year to use group V over VW spec. Even if it were a $5 difference in oil cost $5x 5 qts x 3 changes = $75 per year it would take 40 years to equal $3000.

So skip eating out for lunch once per year and save your car! : )

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: sangyup81
how in the world are these people in europe doing it?

Are the European engines also imported from Mexico? Just asking...

 

[Audi Junkie]

Rotella Synth would be the best otc choice, imo.

If I had an FSI to service, I'd do 3k on 15w-40 until it got cold out.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: river_rat
Originally Posted By: sangyup81
how in the world are these people in europe doing it?

Are the European engines also imported from Mexico? Just asking...


NO, all the engines are made in Europe. Pretty easy to determine that yourself if you're in front of a computer, but I think you were just trying to be sarcastic.

 

[mechanicx]

It looks as if the ZDDP or EP additives got depleted. Is it also possible that the dealers were not filling with the oil the owner's thought? I'm not really a fan of long OCI and I wouldn't trust the oil a shop put in for a long OCI unless I saw what was put in.

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: buster
Thanks for posting this. Clearly a bad engine design, but also related to lubrication.

saaber, are engines using RL holding up any better?

Not enough info. to say for sure. The 29k picture posted above is mine running RL 5w40, but that is only one example. It is encouraging though. I wish we had 1000 photos of 1000 different cars, then we could really say something about that.

The UOAs really tell the story to me. If an oil is clearly shot by 5k for example, and continued to run to 10k, then I don't see how a part like that shown above which is under tremendous pressure and really needs good lubrication/protection can hold up.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: river_rat
Originally Posted By: sangyup81
how in the world are these people in europe doing it?

Are the European engines also imported from Mexico? Just asking...


NO, all the engines are made in Europe. Pretty easy to determine that yourself if you're in front of a computer, but I think you were trying to be sarcastic.


The Europeans are selling junk to us and keeping the better stuff lol

.

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
It looks as if the ZDDP or EP additives got depleted.

Very, very possible IMO. I haven't gone back and looked at the database to compare ZDDP levels to virgin (not sure if that would be an accurate read on ZDDP depletion anyway) but one would suspect these levels to be depleted due to fuel dilution.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I wonder if a super-strong racing oil is what an engine like that needs?

 

[bepperb]

Is the black coating on the buckets some sort of DLC (diamond like carbon) or some other coating, where the wear is somewhat linear until it's worn through, and then accelerates rapidly, or some other coating?

I ask because I find it interesting that I see all sorts of engines with regular steel buckets and this is certainly not normal but also because Hyundai has started to use coat all their buckets with DLC rather than rollerizing their valvetrains and I wonder about that. Hyundai did it to reduce friction, fwiw, and I'm sure it's much cheaper than roller followers.