More ruined cam followers using VW oils & VW OCI

[sangyup81]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I wonder if a super-strong racing oil is what an engine like that needs?


correct me if i'm wrong but i thought racing oils aren't designed for extended intervals but are designed for performance at the track when put in fresh

 

[bepperb]

I tried to answer my own question, and got a laugh out of this:

http://www.golfmk5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109214

And the answer is yes, it is a DLC coating that VW is hoping doesn't get worn thru. Let's cross our fingers that other manufacturers don't suffer from the same problem.

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
...the black coating on the buckets some sort of DLC (diamond like carbon) or some other coating, where the wear is somewhat linear until it's worn through, and then accelerates rapidly...

Correct on all points! "Diamond like coating" is often the term used and I would guess both "coating" and "compound" are used.

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
I tried to answer my own question, and got a laugh out of this:

http://www.golfmk5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109214

Ha ha! Problem solved!

 

[ARB1977]

Man that sucks...at least all are under warrenty.

 

[duaneb9729]

Can the north American VW computers be programed to Europe's lean burn programing?

 

[lewdwig]

Originally Posted By: duaneb9729
Can the north American VW computers be programed to Europe's lean burn programing?


And will this work with American gas?

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: sangyup81
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I wonder if a super-strong racing oil is what an engine like that needs?


correct me if i'm wrong but i thought racing oils aren't designed for extended intervals but are designed for performance at the track when put in fresh


Only thing I know is reading about people using racing oils that have older flat tappet cam`d engines. Pennzoil and Valvoline told me their oils can be used in daily drivers with 3000/3 oci`s with no problem at all,except for the cat thing,which I don`t really believe would be a problem in most cases.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: saaber1
Originally Posted By: Anies
Nice find, this was a common issue before changing their recommendations.

To clarify, VW's current recommendations are 10k with 502 oil which is what the top two examples ran. This is not an old issue which has been addressed. These are new posts this week from users who have had their oil changed at the dealer according to the manual. The UOA database clearly shows that 5k is about all the oils will hold up for (except for 95% highway use). These wear examples are consistent with that.


Heck, my recent results indicate that 504/507 oils (latest spec) won't hold-up TBN wiser past 5k in a 2.5, not even a 2.0.

My question is does this relate in some way to my wife's 2.5, which has given good UOAs, despite the VW oils' poor TBN retention to 5k?

Thanks

 

[saaber1]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Heck, my recent results indicate that 504/507 oils (latest spec) won't hold-up TBN wiser past 5k in a 2.5, not even a 2.0.

My question is does this relate in some way to my wife's 2.5, which has given good UOAs, despite the VW oils' poor TBN retention to 5k?

Do you recall the starting TBN of that oil? I know the recently posted low SAPS Pentosyn III voa had a very low starting TBN. I'm wondering if this is common to the VW low SAPS oils?

 

[saaber1]

AudiJunkie and river_rat, please keep the personal attack stuff off of this thread. Thanks.

 

[JAG]

Thanks for the good thread, saaber1. Does the TSI engine have the same or similar buckets and loads on them as the FSI engine? Thanks.

 

[saaber1]

TSI fortunately uses a roller cam setup which really eliminates this issue most likely in those engines. However it does make you wonder about wear on other components.

The flat-tappet follower shown above is such a great indicator of wear because it is so easy to remove and you can easily see the wear. So if we are seeing real differences in wear on this part between moderate (5k) and longer (10k+) OCIs, is it an indicator of increased wear rates on other components due to the longer inverval? Note the increased rate may not be high enough to cause any issues (f.e. 10 x almost nothing is still almost nothing).

And if the oil is in fact "worn out" (in terms of VII's broken down, additive depletion, higher volatility) by 5k due to fuel dilution on the FSI, does this same 5k OCI interval translate to the TSI? We need more TSI data to find out I suppose.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: saaber1
AudiJunkie and river_rat, please keep the personal attack stuff off of this thread.


It's nice that you want to play moderator, but you don't really have the luxury of deciding what content belongs in the thread.

The origin of the engine in question seems highly appropriate, like it or not, as does my correction of the quip about it coming from Mexico, when it's in fact Hungarian.

Audi AG's 2.0L TFSI turbocharged 4-cyl. has had little trouble in the past winning over Ward's 10 Best Engines judges, garnering a spot on the list each of the last three years.

However, with the introduction of the all-new '09 A4 range, the auto maker tempted fate by trying to improve upon what already is one of the best I-4s in production.

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Fear not, as the revised TFSI turbo-4 once again fortifies Audi's pioneering spirit in direct-gasoline injection and variable-turbocharger technology by claiming its fourth-consecutive 10 Best Engines award.

While the aforementioned injection/induction systems, along with variable valve timing, a 2-stage intake manifold and electric-like throttle response, made last year's winner hard not to love, various improvements seriously up the ante for this mighty little 4-cyl.

Although the new engine eventually will work its way into numerous Volkswagen AG and Audi models, it currently does battle in a premium segment dominated by larger, more-powerful 6-cyl. mills.

For that duty, its 211 hp (at 5,300 rpm vs. last year's 5,000 rpm) comes up a little short. Yet, with modifications (including an optimized turbocharger; variable exhaust-valve-lift technology; revised electronic controls; a lower compression ratio (9.6:1 vs. 10.3:1); and refined internal components), torque jumps significantly to 258 lb. ft. (350 Nm) and comes in 300 rpm earlier. That's an improvement of 11 hp.

Engine type: 2.0L turbocharged DOHC I-4

Displacement (cc): 1,984

Block/head material: iron/aluminum

Bore × stroke (mm): 82.5 × 92.8

Horsepower (SAE net): 211 @ 4,300-6,000 rpm

Torque: 258 lb.-ft. (350 Nm) @ 1,500-4,200 rpm

Specific output: 106 hp/L

Compression ratio: 9.6:1

Assembly site: Gyor, Hungary

Application tested: Audi A4 Avant 2.0T S-line

EPA city/highway (mpg): 22/28

 

[JAG]

Cool, thanks for the info. I'm glad the TSI has different valvetrain.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: lewdwig
Originally Posted By: duaneb9729
Can the north American VW computers be programed to Europe's lean burn programing?


And will this work with American gas?



Yes, but the warranty goes out the window, as well as smog certs, as the NA tune is for the low NOx emissions.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: saaber1
AudiJunkie and river_rat, please keep the personal attack stuff off of this thread. Thanks.

Fair enough.
I just asked a question if the motors in question were Mexican, like the Rabbit I looked at at the local dealership.
He insulted me, and I will not put up with it.

And, of course as Audie Junkie surely must know, there have been some metalurgical issues with some older VW replacement flat tappets from South American (possibly Mexican as well) suppliers.

 

[saaber1]

Thanks, both you guys have substantive points. Just wanted to keep personal stuff out of the thread. Thanks again.

 

[ffhdriver]

You should mention that the problem is made worse by owners using a higher, than OEM, pressure fuel pump which puts more force on the cam follower. The replacement 2.0 engine doesn't seem to have the problem but there are reports that it has fuel pump problems.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: saaber1
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Heck, my recent results indicate that 504/507 oils (latest spec) won't hold-up TBN wiser past 5k in a 2.5, not even a 2.0.

My question is does this relate in some way to my wife's 2.5, which has given good UOAs, despite the VW oils' poor TBN retention to 5k?

Do you recall the starting TBN of that oil? I know the recently posted low SAPS Pentosyn III voa had a very low starting TBN. I'm wondering if this is common to the VW low SAPS oils?


Not off the top of my head, but it was pretty low. Still, start low, end low, didnt retain as nicely as I'd hope.