I'm with buster on this one, but Valvoline won't see a cent of my money either.
Frank D
Frank D
Valvoline vs Mobil 1 - Round 2
- Thread starter buster
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Good Mother wasn't the least bit bashful about unloading on Castrol when they messed up and got knocked off of the GM6094M list, so i can't see them cutting EOM alot of slack here either.
as a side note, i have no problems with companies coming out with their own specs. if honda waited for the governing bodies to come out with a spec that would handle the RDX, it would have been delayed to about 2026. ford helped drive everyone forward with their early 5w20 specs. MB229.5 is still the champ on most metrics. wait for committees? i don't think so...
as a side note, i have no problems with companies coming out with their own specs. if honda waited for the governing bodies to come out with a spec that would handle the RDX, it would have been delayed to about 2026. ford helped drive everyone forward with their early 5w20 specs. MB229.5 is still the champ on most metrics. wait for committees? i don't think so...
As a mere commoner, all I know is this.
My engine has seen 4 consecutive UOAs on 4 consecutive M1 5w30 syn (non EP) changes and they were all consistently high-wear in certain areas, as confirmed by two different labs. Matter of fact the ppm numbers became predictable for me before even looking at the UOA. By switching to another brand, after the first fill the previous high-wear metals were reduced instantly in as much as half.
Ashland's claims now just further cast a shadow of doubt for me personally over M1 and I will not be using it in any of my vehicles.
My engine has seen 4 consecutive UOAs on 4 consecutive M1 5w30 syn (non EP) changes and they were all consistently high-wear in certain areas, as confirmed by two different labs. Matter of fact the ppm numbers became predictable for me before even looking at the UOA. By switching to another brand, after the first fill the previous high-wear metals were reduced instantly in as much as half.
Ashland's claims now just further cast a shadow of doubt for me personally over M1 and I will not be using it in any of my vehicles.
I had a look at the UOA's myself and stopped denying that Mobil 1 had some issues, especially in the 5w30 grade. Even though I never used 5W30 I figured why take chances?
Frank D
Frank D
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
If they'd come out and say, for whatever reason - Katrina's disruption, someone dropped the ball, whatever, we put out a bad stock of product and it's fixed now, they'd have the ball back in their court.
Don't hold your breath. A company the size of ExMo will never never EVER admit a mistake. They'll just jock some data around until it says what they want and publish it.
This latest fiasco just reinforces my decision to quit buying ExMo products. I've been using PP for the last year or so and buy my gas anywhere but Mobil or Exxon. They can get bent.
P.S. I'm not saying their products are lousy, because they aren't; they're excellent, in fact. It's the COMPANY that sucks and I refuse to support them with any more of my money.
If they'd come out and say, for whatever reason - Katrina's disruption, someone dropped the ball, whatever, we put out a bad stock of product and it's fixed now, they'd have the ball back in their court.
Don't hold your breath. A company the size of ExMo will never never EVER admit a mistake. They'll just jock some data around until it says what they want and publish it.
This latest fiasco just reinforces my decision to quit buying ExMo products. I've been using PP for the last year or so and buy my gas anywhere but Mobil or Exxon. They can get bent.
P.S. I'm not saying their products are lousy, because they aren't; they're excellent, in fact. It's the COMPANY that sucks and I refuse to support them with any more of my money.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I haven't swallowed the "Mobil 1 is garbage" Koolaid.
+1 Always a good idea stay clear of the Koolaid.
Before I swear off M1, I'm waiting for some official response. It could be that there is a valid explanation. Really what I want to see is what kind of statement they will make to their customers. No matter what, I'll be buying a couple 5qt. jugs of M1 and VS because of their $10 rebates.
I haven't swallowed the "Mobil 1 is garbage" Koolaid.
+1 Always a good idea stay clear of the Koolaid.
Before I swear off M1, I'm waiting for some official response. It could be that there is a valid explanation. Really what I want to see is what kind of statement they will make to their customers. No matter what, I'll be buying a couple 5qt. jugs of M1 and VS because of their $10 rebates.
There should be a couple of extra jugs available at my local Walmart.
Just dumped all the EOM products from my oil stash.
I just needed a little push to go all Pennzoil.
In fact, after 25 years of using Pennzoil with great results, I felt like a hypocrite pouring M1 into one of my vehicles.
The M1 experiment is over for me.
I'm sure M1 is great oil.
I just don't believe in it.
Just dumped all the EOM products from my oil stash.
I just needed a little push to go all Pennzoil.
In fact, after 25 years of using Pennzoil with great results, I felt like a hypocrite pouring M1 into one of my vehicles.
The M1 experiment is over for me.
I'm sure M1 is great oil.
I just don't believe in it.
There is a thread in the UOA section where "nicrfe1370" posted a speadsheet with 120 Subaru UOA's. I did a bit of rough sorting and found M1 seemed to have higher iron numbers. Of course this is many different engines, climates, driving styles, etc. so the data is not 100% scientific.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1293170&fpart=1
I eliminated the data with less than 20,000 miles (break-in) and OCI less than 4000 miles to get rid of short OCI's. I was left with 90 samples.
I then sorted the data by ppm iron per 1000 miles.
Amsoil, Redline and Royal Purple dominate the top performers and Mobil 1 tends to dominate the bottom end of the list with higher iron ppm per 1000 miles.
I get very similar results for chrome per 1000 miles. Lead, copper and aluminum are more of a mixed bag.
See below for the iron ppm/1000 miles sort:
Miles iron/1000 Oil Brand
13500 0.2 Amsoil S2000
12664 0.3 Amsoil S3000
5786 0.3 Amsoil
4982 0.4 Redline
4323 0.5 Amsoil S3000
6904 0.6 RP Racing 21
22000 0.6 Amsoil S2000
4871 0.6 Redline
7490 0.7 Mobil 1
7156 0.7 Amsoil
5022 0.8 Royal Purple
4983 0.8 Royal Purple
4963 0.8 Redline
7382 0.8 Amsoil
5592 0.9 Tech2000
7777 0.9 RP Racing 21
8800 0.9 Chevron Supreme
7521 0.9 RP Racing 21
5319 0.9 Pennzoil/Pennzoil Plat
5174 1.0 Amsoil ASL
4131 1.0 Redline
5012 1.0 Redline
4950 1.0 Tech2000
5800 1.0 Mobil 1
7579 1.1 Mobil 1
7504 1.1 RP Racing 21
6500 1.1 Amsoil S3000
4632 1.1 Castrol High Mileage
7230 1.1 Amsoil S3000
4407 1.1 Motorcraft
5200 1.2 Amsoil ASL
6840 1.2 Synergyn
7666 1.2 Mobil 1
6790 1.2 Pennzoil Platinum
5089 1.2 Castrol Syntec
5061 1.2 Castrol Syntec
5840 1.2 Pennzoil Platinum
4082 1.2 Castrol GTX
7100 1.3 Castrol Syntec
8332 1.3 Mobil 1, Amsoil S3K
7534 1.3 Mobil 1
5174 1.4 Amsoil S2000
8077 1.4 Amsoil AMO
6540 1.4 Synergyn
5023 1.4 Synergyn
5003 1.4 RP Racing 21
5000 1.4 Mobil 1
7000 1.4 Pennzoil
4888 1.4 Mobil 1
8843 1.5 Amsoil
10000 1.5 Royal Purple
8000 1.5 Schaeffers
5200 1.5 Amsoil ASL
7780 1.5 Mobil Delvac 1
7000 1.6 Mobil 1
4411 1.6 Motorcraft
5000 1.6 Mobil 1
4316 1.6 Mobil 1, Amsoil S3K
13500 1.6 Amsoil ATM
4906 1.6 Castrol GTX
4796 1.7 Mobil 1
4788 1.7 Castrol Syntec
5930 1.7 Castrol Syntec
7000 1.7 Mobil 1
4000 1.8 Mobil 1
6213 1.8 Mobil 1
6165 1.8 Mobil 1
6144 1.8 Castrol Syntec
6000 1.8 Amsoil ATM
7600 1.8 unknown dealer non-synth
7000 1.9 Royal Purple
5921 1.9 Castrol GTX
4284 1.9 Pennzoil blend
6362 1.9 Mobil 1/Amsoil S3K/Mobil 1 T&SUV
7845 1.9 Castrol Syntec (GC)
4046 2.0 Amsoil
6524 2.0 Motul 300V Chrono
5303 2.1 Amsoil S3000
6261 2.2 Mobil 1
9581 2.3 Amsoil S2000
4647 2.6 Mobil 1
6000 2.8 Amsoil
7566 2.9 Mobil 1
7183 2.9 Mobil 1
6470 3.1 Schaeffers
5083 3.1 Castrol Syntec (GC)
7505 3.3 Mobil 1
7433 3.4 Mobil 1
4100 4.1 Schaeffers
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1293170&fpart=1
I eliminated the data with less than 20,000 miles (break-in) and OCI less than 4000 miles to get rid of short OCI's. I was left with 90 samples.
I then sorted the data by ppm iron per 1000 miles.
Amsoil, Redline and Royal Purple dominate the top performers and Mobil 1 tends to dominate the bottom end of the list with higher iron ppm per 1000 miles.
I get very similar results for chrome per 1000 miles. Lead, copper and aluminum are more of a mixed bag.
See below for the iron ppm/1000 miles sort:
Miles iron/1000 Oil Brand
13500 0.2 Amsoil S2000
12664 0.3 Amsoil S3000
5786 0.3 Amsoil
4982 0.4 Redline
4323 0.5 Amsoil S3000
6904 0.6 RP Racing 21
22000 0.6 Amsoil S2000
4871 0.6 Redline
7490 0.7 Mobil 1
7156 0.7 Amsoil
5022 0.8 Royal Purple
4983 0.8 Royal Purple
4963 0.8 Redline
7382 0.8 Amsoil
5592 0.9 Tech2000
7777 0.9 RP Racing 21
8800 0.9 Chevron Supreme
7521 0.9 RP Racing 21
5319 0.9 Pennzoil/Pennzoil Plat
5174 1.0 Amsoil ASL
4131 1.0 Redline
5012 1.0 Redline
4950 1.0 Tech2000
5800 1.0 Mobil 1
7579 1.1 Mobil 1
7504 1.1 RP Racing 21
6500 1.1 Amsoil S3000
4632 1.1 Castrol High Mileage
7230 1.1 Amsoil S3000
4407 1.1 Motorcraft
5200 1.2 Amsoil ASL
6840 1.2 Synergyn
7666 1.2 Mobil 1
6790 1.2 Pennzoil Platinum
5089 1.2 Castrol Syntec
5061 1.2 Castrol Syntec
5840 1.2 Pennzoil Platinum
4082 1.2 Castrol GTX
7100 1.3 Castrol Syntec
8332 1.3 Mobil 1, Amsoil S3K
7534 1.3 Mobil 1
5174 1.4 Amsoil S2000
8077 1.4 Amsoil AMO
6540 1.4 Synergyn
5023 1.4 Synergyn
5003 1.4 RP Racing 21
5000 1.4 Mobil 1
7000 1.4 Pennzoil
4888 1.4 Mobil 1
8843 1.5 Amsoil
10000 1.5 Royal Purple
8000 1.5 Schaeffers
5200 1.5 Amsoil ASL
7780 1.5 Mobil Delvac 1
7000 1.6 Mobil 1
4411 1.6 Motorcraft
5000 1.6 Mobil 1
4316 1.6 Mobil 1, Amsoil S3K
13500 1.6 Amsoil ATM
4906 1.6 Castrol GTX
4796 1.7 Mobil 1
4788 1.7 Castrol Syntec
5930 1.7 Castrol Syntec
7000 1.7 Mobil 1
4000 1.8 Mobil 1
6213 1.8 Mobil 1
6165 1.8 Mobil 1
6144 1.8 Castrol Syntec
6000 1.8 Amsoil ATM
7600 1.8 unknown dealer non-synth
7000 1.9 Royal Purple
5921 1.9 Castrol GTX
4284 1.9 Pennzoil blend
6362 1.9 Mobil 1/Amsoil S3K/Mobil 1 T&SUV
7845 1.9 Castrol Syntec (GC)
4046 2.0 Amsoil
6524 2.0 Motul 300V Chrono
5303 2.1 Amsoil S3000
6261 2.2 Mobil 1
9581 2.3 Amsoil S2000
4647 2.6 Mobil 1
6000 2.8 Amsoil
7566 2.9 Mobil 1
7183 2.9 Mobil 1
6470 3.1 Schaeffers
5083 3.1 Castrol Syntec (GC)
7505 3.3 Mobil 1
7433 3.4 Mobil 1
4100 4.1 Schaeffers
here is more sorting of the same Subaru data but by grade:
This time I eliminated all samples with less than 10,000 miles on the vehicle or less than 3000 OCI.
Overall averages by brand
Redline 0.8 ppm iron/1000 (6 samples)
Royal Purple 1.1 ppm iron/1000 (11 samples)
Amsoil 1.3 ppm iron/1000 (24 samples various grades)
Castrol 1.6 ppm iron/1000 (15 samples various grades)
Mobil 1 2.1 ppm iron/1000 (40 samples various grades)
Averages sorted by Grade and brand
0.8 iron/1000 Redline 10W30 & 10W40 (6 samples)
1.0 iron/1000 Amsoil 0W30 (4 samples)
1.1 iron/1000 Amsoil 5W30 (10 samples)
1.1 iron/1000 Royal Purple (11 samples various grades)
1.7 iron/1000 Amsoil 10W30 & 10W40 (8 samples)
1.8 iron/1000 Castrol Syntec 0W30 (10 samples)
2.3 iron/1000 Mobil 1 5W30 (23 samples)
This time I eliminated all samples with less than 10,000 miles on the vehicle or less than 3000 OCI.
Overall averages by brand
Redline 0.8 ppm iron/1000 (6 samples)
Royal Purple 1.1 ppm iron/1000 (11 samples)
Amsoil 1.3 ppm iron/1000 (24 samples various grades)
Castrol 1.6 ppm iron/1000 (15 samples various grades)
Mobil 1 2.1 ppm iron/1000 (40 samples various grades)
Averages sorted by Grade and brand
0.8 iron/1000 Redline 10W30 & 10W40 (6 samples)
1.0 iron/1000 Amsoil 0W30 (4 samples)
1.1 iron/1000 Amsoil 5W30 (10 samples)
1.1 iron/1000 Royal Purple (11 samples various grades)
1.7 iron/1000 Amsoil 10W30 & 10W40 (8 samples)
1.8 iron/1000 Castrol Syntec 0W30 (10 samples)
2.3 iron/1000 Mobil 1 5W30 (23 samples)
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
There should be a couple of extra jugs available at my local Walmart.
Just dumped all the EOM products from my oil stash.
I just needed a little push to go all Pennzoil.
In fact, after 25 years of using Pennzoil with great results, I felt like a hypocrite pouring M1 into one of my vehicles.
The M1 experiment is over for me.
I'm sure M1 is great oil.
I just don't believe in it.
We share similar feelings. I started using Mobil 1 long before PP ever existed, it was the only synthetic oil my van ever had. I now run PP in it thanks to Ashland's marketing. I did use YB exclusively for years in other vehicles I owned until joining BITOG, then I started buying sale oil.
The Mobil 1 experiment ended for me too, I have about 8 more qts of 0W20 to return and all ties will be cut officially in June when the 0W20 Mobil 1 comes out of my Jeep.
Frank D
There should be a couple of extra jugs available at my local Walmart.
Just dumped all the EOM products from my oil stash.
I just needed a little push to go all Pennzoil.
In fact, after 25 years of using Pennzoil with great results, I felt like a hypocrite pouring M1 into one of my vehicles.
The M1 experiment is over for me.
I'm sure M1 is great oil.
I just don't believe in it.
We share similar feelings. I started using Mobil 1 long before PP ever existed, it was the only synthetic oil my van ever had. I now run PP in it thanks to Ashland's marketing. I did use YB exclusively for years in other vehicles I owned until joining BITOG, then I started buying sale oil.
The Mobil 1 experiment ended for me too, I have about 8 more qts of 0W20 to return and all ties will be cut officially in June when the 0W20 Mobil 1 comes out of my Jeep.
Frank D
LOL
This sucks. I just switched to M1 5W-20 in my Mustang on the last fill. Was using the OEM MC before that. Everyone used to tout M1 as one of if not the best so ofcourse I went with it.
And now I read this fiasco.
This sucks. I just switched to M1 5W-20 in my Mustang on the last fill. Was using the OEM MC before that. Everyone used to tout M1 as one of if not the best so ofcourse I went with it.
And now I read this fiasco.
LOL, I changed the oil in my Jeep to Mobil 1 0w20 about 100 miles ago. As much as I want it out of there its going to stay in it until June, or Ashland finds problems with it. LOL
Frank D
Frank D
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Before I swear off M1, I'm waiting for some official response. It could be that there is a valid explanation. Really what I want to see is what kind of statement they will make to their customers.
I keep thinking the same thing, but it seems like if they had something valid and reasonable, they would have come out with it already. There was something about Valvoline's statement that seems dodgy to me, but I can't quite nail down what it is. However, there must be plenty of validity to it because Exxon-Mobile HAS to know this is causing a flap, and they can't just dismiss it as a few car nerds. I've heard it from a few man on the street types that mobile 1 isn't a "real" synthetic anymore, so this kind of thing does trickle out to Joe Blow, slowly but surely.
I'm not ready to condemn the quality of M1, but I gotta say I'm not liking their corporate attitude. Their responses to some of the BITOG posters who have asked about Valvoline, combined with the responses they sent back in the days of the Group III controversy have just left a bad taste in my mouth that I'm not sure is going to go away this time. If I can get my hands on it easily, I think I'm going Redline from here on out and going by the OLM.
Before I swear off M1, I'm waiting for some official response. It could be that there is a valid explanation. Really what I want to see is what kind of statement they will make to their customers.
I keep thinking the same thing, but it seems like if they had something valid and reasonable, they would have come out with it already. There was something about Valvoline's statement that seems dodgy to me, but I can't quite nail down what it is. However, there must be plenty of validity to it because Exxon-Mobile HAS to know this is causing a flap, and they can't just dismiss it as a few car nerds. I've heard it from a few man on the street types that mobile 1 isn't a "real" synthetic anymore, so this kind of thing does trickle out to Joe Blow, slowly but surely.
I'm not ready to condemn the quality of M1, but I gotta say I'm not liking their corporate attitude. Their responses to some of the BITOG posters who have asked about Valvoline, combined with the responses they sent back in the days of the Group III controversy have just left a bad taste in my mouth that I'm not sure is going to go away this time. If I can get my hands on it easily, I think I'm going Redline from here on out and going by the OLM.
I would also be going to Redline or Amsoil if I didn't have a warranty to worry about.
Oh woops did I just crack open a can of worms there?
Oh woops did I just crack open a can of worms there?
Back in August 2007 one of the BITOG members asked:
"Would Valvoline Durablend be better for a 5k oci than M1, or the other way around? "
This was Terry's answer:
"Right NOW the Valvoline formula will yield lower wear for 5000 mile interval in same engine. "
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=975237&fpart=3
Interesting, isn't it?
"Would Valvoline Durablend be better for a 5k oci than M1, or the other way around? "
This was Terry's answer:
"Right NOW the Valvoline formula will yield lower wear for 5000 mile interval in same engine. "
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=975237&fpart=3
Interesting, isn't it?
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Riptide
LOL
This sucks. I just switched to M1 5W-20 in my Mustang on the last fill. Was using the OEM MC before that. Everyone used to tout M1 as one of if not the best so ofcourse I went with it.
And now I read this fiasco.
As far as we know, this is only limited to 5w30, right?
LOL
This sucks. I just switched to M1 5W-20 in my Mustang on the last fill. Was using the OEM MC before that. Everyone used to tout M1 as one of if not the best so ofcourse I went with it.
And now I read this fiasco.
As far as we know, this is only limited to 5w30, right?
right. the only allegation Ashland has made is for the 5w30. the "reason" this was tested was it is the "most popular" weight.
except it isn't, 10w30 is the most popular weight oil sold in the US. this makes me think that one batch of 5w30 is being used to smear the whole brand.
except it isn't, 10w30 is the most popular weight oil sold in the US. this makes me think that one batch of 5w30 is being used to smear the whole brand.
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Back in August 2007 one of the BITOG members asked:
"Would Valvoline Durablend be better for a 5k oci than M1, or the other way around? "
This was Terry's answer:
"Right NOW the Valvoline formula will yield lower wear for 5000 mile interval in same engine. "
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=975237&fpart=3
Interesting, isn't it?
Terry has been very candid with me and always had to willingness to backup what he was telling me with actual information. He has done many UOAs for me, many that I've never posted.
The one thing that I don't know how he does and we will not say how he knows is with statements like above, i.e.... he knows what is going on with 'Present' formulations of ALL the bigs.
Back in August 2007 one of the BITOG members asked:
"Would Valvoline Durablend be better for a 5k oci than M1, or the other way around? "
This was Terry's answer:
"Right NOW the Valvoline formula will yield lower wear for 5000 mile interval in same engine. "
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=975237&fpart=3
Interesting, isn't it?
Terry has been very candid with me and always had to willingness to backup what he was telling me with actual information. He has done many UOAs for me, many that I've never posted.
The one thing that I don't know how he does and we will not say how he knows is with statements like above, i.e.... he knows what is going on with 'Present' formulations of ALL the bigs.
Just wanted to thank MVA for the data processing. That's really something to chew on.
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