I have a 2002 Hurricane Rv with a Ford V10 engine and 29,000 miles. Memorial weekend, coming from amotocross race in north Arkansas, as we slowed to turn into a gas station the engine suddenly died. no lights, no loss of preesure, the engine didn't get hot...nothing. the Rv was towed to Landers Ford in Little Rock, AR. they pulled my oil filter, said that the oil was dirty and are no denying my warranty. After much discussion, they finally agreed to drop the pan and check further...this was 3 weeks later. they called and told my husband and me that bearings #3 and #4 were frozenin the crankshaft due to dirty oil. In a relpy to the BBB of Arkansas they now say that bearings #2 and #7 are frozen. We used Penzoil 5W20 and a Motcraft oil filter. the oil does have 7,000miles on it. Is it possible that my oil caused this. They refuse to run a failure analysis or run an oil analysis. I have an oil analysis kit and am going to do my own test today. Remember I said we had no warning..no service engine soo or oil light came on. I would appreciate any help in this matter.
Ford V10motor locked up
- Thread starter Cathy Covington
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Kestas
Staff member
At one time I've studied crankshafts for Ford. Sometimes they don't clean the crank properly before installation. This would show up as abrasive grit during analysis. Usually this would result in wiping out the rear bearings, if they are the last ones to get oil in the oil circuit. If you sample the sludge/dirty oil properly and find abrasive grit in there, then you have a case. Unfortunately, this is beyond the average owner.
I'd definitely get an oil analysis done. Unfortunately you did leave the oil in for 7,000 miles. Ford does state that 5,000 miles under normal and 3,000 miles severe. Being a RV I would say that falls under the severe catagory. Other than the "shooting sparkplugs" these V-10 engines are pretty hardy. When you say you were coming back from an autocross I assume that you were towing a vehicle. That really puts you in the severe catagory unfortunately for you. In hindsight a quality true synthetic changed at 5,000 mile intervals is what you should have been using. Or change the dino oil at 3,000 mile intervals. You might want to check on the web to see if there are other failures similar to your's with the V-10. If there are then that could possibly help you in dealing with Ford. Good luck.
Whimsey
Whimsey
I'm NO expert, here, so take my comments accordingly. My only concern is that the stress of an RV chassis and the attendant RV equipment weight may have just been too much for any conventional oil (and maybe synthetics, too) to handle over a 7,000 mile oil change interval. I've been impressed with the used oil analyses on the 5W-20 wunder-oils, but in your application they just may have met their match. There's also the possibity that your V-10 engine was just plain defective from the factory, too, adding to the problem. Did you or your husband already extract an oil sample? If you have to rely on the dealer, there's no telling what or even what vehicle it's actually pulled from... If an oil analysis shows the presence of antifreeze/coolant, that could get you folks off the hook.
For starters, the Ford dealer cannot deny warranty, since they didn't build the engine. Only the manufacturer can deny warranty. And even then, it must be proven that the failure to change oil caused the problem. That would require an oil analyis, in my opinion.
By all means, take one yourself anyhow.
I'd think it unlikely that a couple thousand extra miles could have resulted in the oil being in a condition which could cause a failure.
Could the oil be dirty? Sure, but one cannot tell by color (or diesels would be changed every couple hours).
Good luck.
By all means, take one yourself anyhow.
I'd think it unlikely that a couple thousand extra miles could have resulted in the oil being in a condition which could cause a failure.
Could the oil be dirty? Sure, but one cannot tell by color (or diesels would be changed every couple hours).
Good luck.
Is 5W20 supposed to be used in a V10 motor??
Yep - 5w-20 is spec'ed for the V10.
Unfortunately your oil change interval is 7,000 miles. While its ridiculous that the engine failed in such short time, the manufacture has legal ground to stand on as you don't have proof that the RV was serviced as suggested in the manual.
Good luck with your RV. I hope somebody will step in and at least help with the cost of repair.
Unfortunately your oil change interval is 7,000 miles. While its ridiculous that the engine failed in such short time, the manufacture has legal ground to stand on as you don't have proof that the RV was serviced as suggested in the manual.
Good luck with your RV. I hope somebody will step in and at least help with the cost of repair.
Time to start raising all sorts of h*** and calling ford, government, and do a search on line for this happening to other people. Yes, you may have been over on the oil change, but if I paid what you most likely did for that vehicle, it better run like a sewing machine for at least 300k...
Scream bloody murder, only the sqeeky wheel gets the grease.
Dan
All the above responses are on track. The only thing I would add is that the RV with the sick engine is sitting at Landers Ford, which is owned by the third largest US retailer of new and used autos, based in Michigan if memory serves me correct. It is the United Auto Group and they acquire and operate franchised auto dealerships through out the US and Puerto Rico. They are in the business of Selling vehicles and if you are lucky, you might get one repaired there.
Other than a lousy Dealer, your only recourse is the legal system. The oil should not be suspect, a good failure/particle analysis would be prudent. The inspection when the oil pan was removed would have revealed any external problems with the oil pump, such as sludge blocking it. If this is not the case, then you had a mechanical failure, not oil failure. JMO
Other than a lousy Dealer, your only recourse is the legal system. The oil should not be suspect, a good failure/particle analysis would be prudent. The inspection when the oil pan was removed would have revealed any external problems with the oil pump, such as sludge blocking it. If this is not the case, then you had a mechanical failure, not oil failure. JMO
The dealer can deny warranty & make you take them to court. Ford can deny warranty & make you take them to court. That's why the court is there.
Not only would I get the UOA done (having drawn the sample yourself if you still can), but I'd get with a lawyer on this ASAP. Yes, you will have to take them to court (they're surely not going to sue themselves...), but once there, they have the burden of proving that the 7k mile oil actually caused the failure. That will require the analysis and testimony of an engineer, most likely. Having a service manager or even tech say that 1) oil is too old and 2) bearing failed does NOT prove that one CAUSED the other. Right now, they're sitting back to see if you have the will to turn this into a war. If you do, and especially if you start making a bunch of noise too, they may just decide it's best to fix your engine. Be aggressive and make it plain that you're not just going to go away or passively write them a check for a new engine.
MolaKule
Staff member
Cathy,
Too bad we're so far apart as I've done EW work, and would love to handle this one but unfortunately, I don't know anyone in Ar that does EW work.
Your attorney might have someone on retainer that could do this.
Too bad we're so far apart as I've done EW work, and would love to handle this one but unfortunately, I don't know anyone in Ar that does EW work.
Your attorney might have someone on retainer that could do this.
When the dealer points out an oil related failure, the burden of proof is on you by means of providing receipts of oil/filter purchases (or oil changes if you go somewhere to get it done) as well as the mileage at which it was done.
You also need to use an approved oil and filter as well as change on the manufacturers mileage interval!
While I would try anything possible to get this taken care of, no one (except you) has any obligation to "take care" of this.
IMHO though, if you admitted 7,000 mile OCI's, and have no oil change receipts, then you're SOL...
MolaKule
Staff member
By all means, take an oil sample yourself and take enough oil to send to two labs. You used Ford's recommended oil and filter, just went a bit over mileage recommendations. Lack of oil pressure or overheating is usually the biggest culprit in engine failures, unless there was a preceeding mechanical problem from manufacture.
If the viscosity is anywhere from 5 weight to 40 weight, I don't see why a V10 would fail, they're generally pretty tough engines. My BIL in Illinois has the same rig with umpteen miles on it using the same Ford oil and filter and has never had a problem.
I agree with Dan, make all kinds of noise.
If the viscosity is anywhere from 5 weight to 40 weight, I don't see why a V10 would fail, they're generally pretty tough engines. My BIL in Illinois has the same rig with umpteen miles on it using the same Ford oil and filter and has never had a problem.
I agree with Dan, make all kinds of noise.
I went to the dealership yesterday. It seems that they have discarded all the oil that cameout of my engine. The service manager said that "it appeared to be preety clean,so we saw no reason to save it" the only oil that was left was in a little plastic container with my name on the top and my oil filter in it. I called my Amsoil rep from the dealership to ask him what to do. He told me to go ahead and get a sample of that oil...its all we got. I asked for the data from a failure analysis and he said he did that visually. I asked for the data from his oil analysis and he said that he saw no reason to do one because he did that visually too. They were very cocky acting and quite sure of themselves. I did take pictures of the crankshaft and the oil pan..which appeared to be pretty clean to me. Honestly, I haven't worked on a car in years. Back in the day, I did most of the work on my '69 Camaro and my '79 Camaro. BTW, we were coming from a motocross race. My daughter has raced motocross for 8 years. We are in our motorhome almost every weekend. My husband and daughter had just returned from a 2 week trip to California, so the RV had been sitting for that 2 weeks, because with the price of gas, they just went in the truck. We had gone to Thayer, Mo the weekend before and were coming from Smithville, AR when this occurred. I still have a problem with the fact that we had no warning. No oil light, service engine soon light, no loss of pressure...nothing. Just quit!
MolaKule
Staff member
Don't settle for any so-called visual analysis of the oil. That doesn't cut it.
A statement like "pretty clean" will go a long way in court.
Record your conversation (or make notes) and who said it of all communications between yourself and the dealers with the date and time notated.
[ July 15, 2004, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
A statement like "pretty clean" will go a long way in court.
Record your conversation (or make notes) and who said it of all communications between yourself and the dealers with the date and time notated.
[ July 15, 2004, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
I did write it all down right there in front of him. I also called my friend, Kevin, from Amsoil while I was in the dealership and repeated the things Brandon, the service guy, was telling me in front of him. IU tried to tell Brandon that a visual analysis wasn't going to fly very far and he told me that he had done everything he needed to do.
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