Oil consumption problems on LS1/LS6 engines

[Patman]

Here is an interesting article about the oil consumption woes on the LS1 and LS6 engines that come in the Corvette. (the LS1 is also available in Camaros and Firebirds, and in Australia it's available in the Holdens)

http://www.c5registry.com/2k2z06/page5.htm

One thing the article doesn't mention is how users of these cars notice less oil burning when they switch from Mobil 1 to another brand, probably because Mobil 1 appears to be on the thin side (when you look at it's viscosity at 100C, it's lower than most other 5w30s and 10w30s out there)

Another thing, I know a few guys with 2002s who have oil burning issues, and piston slap issues, so they really didn't solve this problem like they claim on that page. But it still makes for interesting reading.

 

[kev99sl]

At least you have an article to show for your oil burning problems! Saturns have been burning oil for years -- my '99 has a consumption problem I'm trying to fix with Auto-RX -- and they too have claimed to have "fixed it" many times. Oh well. Just had to throw my two angry cents in ...

 

[Patman]

It sucks how so many car makers won't admit to bad designs, and it's even worse when they know about it for many years and don't do anything about it. In a lot of cases they would rather just wait for people to complain and then they take care of it at the dealer level, under warranty, instead of correcting it by designing it better to begin with.

Are new 2002 Saturns the same way?

 

[kev99sl]

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:
It sucks how so many car makers won't admit to bad designs, and it's even worse when they know about it for many years and don't do anything about it.

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Dodge Caravan, anyone? (Although credit goes to Chrysler for inventing the first disposable automatic transmission!)

After having complained about Saturn, I have to say that the car has been bulletproof otherwise. I haven't had any fixes beyond normal maintenance. Also, to be fair, a lot of people have been driving Saturns that drink as much as a quart every 800 miles that have gone easily past 200,000 miles without an overhaul. I gather it's the oil control rings that are bad, because my car doesn't seem to have lost any compression. So, I guess I ought to say I love my Saturn, despite the oil burning. I'd be happier if it didn't burn any, but there you go.

To answer your question, the oil burning was supposed to have been fixed by the '97 model year, but I know several other folks with '98s that still burn oil. I've heard that the Ecotec engines are OK -- just the 1.9 SOHC and DOHC engines are problematic.

 

[Terry]

Kev99sl, "IF" the rings are glazed or coated causing the oil consumption.... Give the auto-rx a chance to clean each layer off slowly. It could be valve guide seals that are dried also, give it some time.

 

[kev99sl]

quote:

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Originally posted by Terry:
Kev99sl, "IF" the rings are glazed or coated causing the oil consumption.... Give the auto-rx a chance to clean each layer off slowly. It could be valve guide seals that are dried also, give it some time.

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I'm still midway through my Auto-Rx application, so it's too early to say it didn't help. I'm about 900 miles into my 1500-mile "clean oil and filter only" drive before the second bottle is added. I've used half a quart of Castrol GTX 10w-40 so far, but who knows what that would translate into if I was using my usual Amosil 10w-40 instead? Perhaps it'd be lower than that, I just don't know. Not ready to make any pronouncements until I've carried out all the directions on the bottle to the letter.

As for valve seals, I replaced those 30,000 miles ago thinking they were the reason for the oil consumption in the first place. Actually, the ones I pulled out looked fine, and the consumption stayed the same with the new seals. It's the rings all right. It's just a matter of whether they're seized or worn. Either way, they're victims of a crappy design indeed.

I should add that the consumption started at around 50,000 miles and has steadily increased since then.

[ May 30, 2002, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: kev99sl ]

 

[Chris]

I am in the same boat with my wifes '95 Saturn. It started at about 50k and drinks about 1qt. per 1k. Oil always changed at 3k and well maintained since new. Have applied the auto-rx, did the 500 mile change out and am 250 into using dino oil for about 1000 miles to hopefully "firm up the seals". It is still using oil but I am hoping it will slow soon. Plan to use Maxlife for a few oil changes to see if it helps.

 

[Fulton 1]

quote:

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Originally posted by kev99sl:
Dodge Caravan, anyone? (Although credit goes to Chrysler for inventing the first disposable automatic transmission!)

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The wife and I actually have a running joke about older Chrysler products (especially the minivans) - if they aren't burning oil then they must have transaxle problems

I know a poor guy who has had the transaxle on his '94 Caravan rebuilt three times! I believe some of his problems are the fault of his shop, but it seems that everybody I know with a Chrysler minivan has transaxle problems

 

[dragboat]

I think both problems with the Saturn and the LS1 are that they are "shaker" motors. Could be wrong as I do not have the rod ratios handy. The Saturn piston might have oil drain holes in the scraper ring area either plugged or not located properly or maybe to not have any at all?.

On many TRW/Speed Pro pistons we add these holes before the balancing of the assembly

 

[kev99sl]

quote:

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Originally posted by dragboat:
I think both problems with the Saturn and the LS1 are that they are "shaker" motors. Could be wrong as I do not have the rod ratios handy. The Saturn piston might have oil drain holes in the scraper ring area either plugged or not located properly or maybe to not have any at all?.

On many TRW/Speed Pro pistons we add these holes before the balancing of the assembly

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Rumor is that the Saturn engines don't have the oil drain holes at all. Interesting that you mentioned that ...

 

[dragboat]

I was online a couple nights ago and saw on a Saturn site where a guy had ran all kinds of stuff through the motor to try to stop the oil burning then tore the motor down to only find a very clean motor with a very dirty ring package.
I do not believe these motors to have the oil drain holes in the pistons located properly,large enough or again,if they have any at all.

I believe I know the fix for these without engine tear down and would cost about 4 dollars. I will not post the fix but might take one members car on a trail basis via telephone so instructions will be followed to a T.

I actually would prefer to be on site to make certain the engine was not harmed but I do not know any Saturn owners around here. I mght seek one out though.

If we have a Saturn owner that has tried everything and the motor still burns oil you might PM me if interested in trying it dragboats way.

 

[eldawg4100]

northstar engines have BAD consuption problems...

by nature, the hone pattern of the cylinder walls is very agressive, so using a quart or 2 between 3k oil changes is pretty common.....

but, the due consume excessively when the rings get all carboned up... sometimes from people over-filling the 7.5 quart capacity oil system...

 

[vettenuts]

Knock on wood, my 02 LS-1 has been very good on oil. Less then 1 quart in 6K miles. Car currently has 7K miles. I did look in the cylinders with a boroscope and I don't think the rings will seat for some time yet so I am in hopes that I have by-passed the oil burning issue.

As far as the 02 LS-1/LS-6, the Corvette LS-6 was supposed to get the new napier ring design in the start of 02 production, and the LS-1 was to follow in week 3. I would be curious to find out the production date of those 02 LS-1 Corvettes that are burning oil as the 01 version was pretty bad. Also, I believe both the LS-6 and the LS-1 got the new piston design in the spring of 01 so all 02 engines should have the new pistons.

 

[Patman]

I know TONS of 2002 LS1 owners that still burn oil though. At least 2 or 3 of the 2002 f-body owners in my car club have oil burning issues. GM hasn't solved the problem yet (my cousin is the engine test engineer at the LS1 assembly plant actually, and he tells me they are working hard to solve the problem but due to the engine design and parts supplier issues it's an uphill battle for them)