Many riders get into a vicious circle of overtighteneing their chain, which causes stretch, which require another tighten, so on and so on. Often the spec for min chain tension (wht the the guys caught in the circle use) is TOO tight. I've verified this many times by removing the shock and positioning the swingarm to it's tightest position. At this point it's nice to see about 3/4", many oem min specs I've found banjo string tight. Is it possible the confidence gained by the scott oiler may have been enough to keep the riders from constant dinking around with the tension? thus the longer chain life?
Scottoiler users
- Thread starter Ethan
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wileyE,
That could be a possible explanation, or it could be that people with scottoilers have the chain correctly adjusted in the very first place. Unfortunately, it's impossible to determine this without additional information.
My understanding of the scottoiler oil was that it was an automatic tranny fluid with a few extra additives thrown in.
Ethan
That could be a possible explanation, or it could be that people with scottoilers have the chain correctly adjusted in the very first place. Unfortunately, it's impossible to determine this without additional information.
My understanding of the scottoiler oil was that it was an automatic tranny fluid with a few extra additives thrown in.
Ethan
How can you separate them out? Since they increase in lockstep together, how do you know which comes first?
Can you explain to me why it should be that a brand-new chain, when ridden in very wet conditions which leave no lube on the rollers, ends up elongating, with corresponding visible damage to the drive surfaces on the rear sprocket, but following proper lubrication, the elongation slows or stops? That is something I have seen for years, consistently on many different motorcycles with different brands of chain and sprockets, using a variety of chain lubes, but always using o-ring or x-ring chains. Seems that if your explanation was correct and mine was wrong, it would be impossible to see any of the things I see consistently with a lack of lube on the rollers.
Adam,
The pins make contact with the bushing in only a very small portion of it's diameter. Only a few degrees of the dia. sees the entire load.
The roller has more of the wear distributed to it's entire circumference, as it is free to be in any position when it meets work. As a result the roller/bushing will see far less growth from wear than the pin will.
Also, when the pins/bushing do wear, they increase the total length of the chain, whereas the wear at the rollers does not.
Yes, the roller/bushing area needs lubrication. And it will help to keep the chain alive by keeping a good lubrication schedule. But the most important part of the chain are the pins and bushings, and the only way to keep them intact is to keep the rings in good shape.
And yes, you may have seen some damage to tooth profiles with a chain that is not being lubricated, but the amount that each individual roller can grow is not enough to make a big dent in the working face of the tooth.
When the lube is depleted from the pin/bushing area, the growth from wear will let the chain roller ride up the working face of the tooth further and further until failure.
The pins make contact with the bushing in only a very small portion of it's diameter. Only a few degrees of the dia. sees the entire load.
The roller has more of the wear distributed to it's entire circumference, as it is free to be in any position when it meets work. As a result the roller/bushing will see far less growth from wear than the pin will.
Also, when the pins/bushing do wear, they increase the total length of the chain, whereas the wear at the rollers does not.
Yes, the roller/bushing area needs lubrication. And it will help to keep the chain alive by keeping a good lubrication schedule. But the most important part of the chain are the pins and bushings, and the only way to keep them intact is to keep the rings in good shape.
And yes, you may have seen some damage to tooth profiles with a chain that is not being lubricated, but the amount that each individual roller can grow is not enough to make a big dent in the working face of the tooth.
When the lube is depleted from the pin/bushing area, the growth from wear will let the chain roller ride up the working face of the tooth further and further until failure.
I think you're missing my point.
Having the tips of the teeth farther apart from each other than they should be (i.e., worn) forces the rollers farther apart from each other than they can go, and what wears in that situation is the pins, having all the lubricant forced out from their contact point with the plates. This is how o-ring chains wear when the sprocket is overly worn, even when the o-rings are intact and there's plenty of good grease inside the sealed areas. You can easily deminstrate this by checking the side flex of the chain, then greaking a regular link and taking it apart. If there's plenty of good grease inside but the chain flexes sideways, then the pins were worn despite having good lubricant sealed inside. Try it; I'm sure you'll see what I just described. And since most people don't lubricate their chains nearly often enough, this is the predominant mode for chain wear on most bikes with o-ring or x-ring chains. It's what killed every one of my o-ring chains in 15 years of riding...
Having the tips of the teeth farther apart from each other than they should be (i.e., worn) forces the rollers farther apart from each other than they can go, and what wears in that situation is the pins, having all the lubricant forced out from their contact point with the plates. This is how o-ring chains wear when the sprocket is overly worn, even when the o-rings are intact and there's plenty of good grease inside the sealed areas. You can easily deminstrate this by checking the side flex of the chain, then greaking a regular link and taking it apart. If there's plenty of good grease inside but the chain flexes sideways, then the pins were worn despite having good lubricant sealed inside. Try it; I'm sure you'll see what I just described. And since most people don't lubricate their chains nearly often enough, this is the predominant mode for chain wear on most bikes with o-ring or x-ring chains. It's what killed every one of my o-ring chains in 15 years of riding...
Adam,
You need to learn chain dynamics before entering into a conversation where you are doing the describing.
You stated:
Please....I suggest you do some studying and then get back to me.
You need to learn chain dynamics before entering into a conversation where you are doing the describing.
You stated:
You don't even know how a chain operates, yet you are going to argue a point?
Please....I suggest you do some studying and then get back to me.
And yet you can't even tell me what is "incorrect" in my post. Amazing.
If there is lubricant at all times between the pin, roller and end plate junctions that are not gapless solid fittings that never rub against each other, then where does the wear on the pins come from?
Hint: Under those conditions, there can't be any.
Let me know... I'll be waiting...
If there is lubricant at all times between the pin, roller and end plate junctions that are not gapless solid fittings that never rub against each other, then where does the wear on the pins come from?
Hint: Under those conditions, there can't be any.
Let me know... I'll be waiting...
Just for fun, I went and did some reading.
http://chain-guide.com/ is an excellent resource from Tsubaki chains. Good reading.
http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcnuts/chain.html is a tech interview with Regina's chief race technician. Check out the first paragraph about off-road riding, which confirms my statement that yes, wear between roller and sprocket tooth *will* wear out a chain. While this process may occur more slowly on street bikes than on dirt (and aluminum sprockets will wear many times more quickly than steel ones when you're talking about this particular type of wear), there is a lot of grit and dirt that ends up between roller and sprocket. A good chain lube will have a very high film strength, act as a shock cushion, and greatly reduce the amount of this type of wear on both o-ring and non o-ring chains, as it prevents heavy localized loading of the surface of the rollers and sprocket teeth that would be present if grit/dirt/debris transmitted the entire drive load from tooth to roller or vice versa.
http://chain-guide.com/ is an excellent resource from Tsubaki chains. Good reading.
http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcnuts/chain.html is a tech interview with Regina's chief race technician. Check out the first paragraph about off-road riding, which confirms my statement that yes, wear between roller and sprocket tooth *will* wear out a chain. While this process may occur more slowly on street bikes than on dirt (and aluminum sprockets will wear many times more quickly than steel ones when you're talking about this particular type of wear), there is a lot of grit and dirt that ends up between roller and sprocket. A good chain lube will have a very high film strength, act as a shock cushion, and greatly reduce the amount of this type of wear on both o-ring and non o-ring chains, as it prevents heavy localized loading of the surface of the rollers and sprocket teeth that would be present if grit/dirt/debris transmitted the entire drive load from tooth to roller or vice versa.
Adam, You make it a habit to make assumptions, rather than finding out the real deal.
The pin wears against the bushing. It never sees the rollers, and there is no moment between the pin and the plates, as they are tight fit against each other.
Like I stated, learn chain dynamics and then get back to me.
(say what??? LOL...)
The pin wears against the bushing. It never sees the rollers, and there is no moment between the pin and the plates, as they are tight fit against each other.
Like I stated, learn chain dynamics and then get back to me.
Time to enjoy the weekend.
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