Bill Targets Oil Drain Intervals
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Originally Posted By: Gasbuggy
You have to consider the length of some OCI's being too long to fully assess the consequences of this law, otherwise what is the point in commenting in here?
So, the automatic solution is to recommend 3,000 mile/3 month OCIs no matter what? Has there ever been a vehicle where even those OCIs were too optimistic? What would happen if that were the case?
And yes, shops can make mistakes. I'm sure that they have far bigger mistakes to worry about whether a Nissan's severe service interval is 3750 miles or 5000 miles.
We also have people posting on this site recommending far, far longer OCIs than OEM. Note that one of the distinctions is one isn't paying for professional advice here. The quick lubes are recommending 3,000 miles primarily to ensure a steady flow of business. Yes, that may have some side benefits to consumers who are always late anyhow (and an early recommendation at least keeps them within reason), or have a sludger, or whatever. But, they're far more interested in creating doubt about the OEM's OCI, using scare tactics, and even using a longer OCI to upsell engine flushes, which, if you listen to them, are definitely needed if you go 5,000 miles.
How will following OEM OCIs lead to increased engine failures?
You have to consider the length of some OCI's being too long to fully assess the consequences of this law, otherwise what is the point in commenting in here?
So, the automatic solution is to recommend 3,000 mile/3 month OCIs no matter what? Has there ever been a vehicle where even those OCIs were too optimistic? What would happen if that were the case?
And yes, shops can make mistakes. I'm sure that they have far bigger mistakes to worry about whether a Nissan's severe service interval is 3750 miles or 5000 miles.
We also have people posting on this site recommending far, far longer OCIs than OEM. Note that one of the distinctions is one isn't paying for professional advice here. The quick lubes are recommending 3,000 miles primarily to ensure a steady flow of business. Yes, that may have some side benefits to consumers who are always late anyhow (and an early recommendation at least keeps them within reason), or have a sludger, or whatever. But, they're far more interested in creating doubt about the OEM's OCI, using scare tactics, and even using a longer OCI to upsell engine flushes, which, if you listen to them, are definitely needed if you go 5,000 miles.
How will following OEM OCIs lead to increased engine failures?
off topic
what would be nice would be a bill banning drug companies from advertising on tv - you need to get xyz from your doctor- and use the money saved to reduce drug costs.
some other countries ban this type of ad,
we should too
what would be nice would be a bill banning drug companies from advertising on tv - you need to get xyz from your doctor- and use the money saved to reduce drug costs.
some other countries ban this type of ad,
we should too
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Gasbuggy
You have to consider the length of some OCI's being too long to fully assess the consequences of this law, otherwise what is the point in commenting in here?
So, the automatic solution is to recommend 3,000 mile/3 month OCIs no matter what? Has there ever been a vehicle where even those OCIs were too optimistic? What would happen if that were the case?
And yes, shops can make mistakes. I'm sure that they have far bigger mistakes to worry about whether a Nissan's severe service interval is 3750 miles or 5000 miles.
We also have people posting on this site recommending far, far longer OCIs than OEM. Note that one of the distinctions is one isn't paying for professional advice here. The quick lubes are recommending 3,000 miles primarily to ensure a steady flow of business. Yes, that may have some side benefits to consumers who are always late anyhow (and an early recommendation at least keeps them within reason), or have a sludger, or whatever. But, they're far more interested in creating doubt about the OEM's OCI, using scare tactics, and even using a longer OCI to upsell engine flushes, which, if you listen to them, are definitely needed if you go 5,000 miles.
How will following OEM OCIs lead to increased engine failures?
There are major flaws in your logic. People that think like you do are the reason bad policies get created. You aim to take out a minority % of businesses using a 3/3000 recommendation. Disregard all the shops that use more reasonable ones. Disregard the obvious flaws in most consumers' ability to follow a maintenance schedule. And go to the far end of the spectrum, being the OEM's max recommendation, and somehow don't realize that it will lead to more engine failures.
What planet do you live on where the mass populace actually checks and tops off their oil and shows up for an oil changes on time?
People posting for longer intervals is not an adequate reply to my comment that many suggest and follow shorter than spec'd intervals. However, now that you brought it up, those suggesting longer OCIs usually accompany a filter recommendation to make it that long distance. Will CA pass another law forcing shops to use Fram Ultras rather than Fram Cores?
Sticking to a blind OEM OCI book interval will lead to more engine failures. Long OCI + the common lack of checking oil (which ALOT of people do) + tendency to delay changing = more engine failures. Some cars burn a quart every 1500 miles right off the show room floor. How many quarts will they have burned in 10,000 miles? How's that motor going to do? This should be common sense.
Thinking OEM is right can also be a mistake. Not that long ago BMW backtracked on their suggested OCI to the tune of cutting 5000 miles off the interval. Can you guess why they cut their suggested interval? Everyone who serviced their BMW outside of the dealer and had these "terrible" OCI suggestions below BMW spec was done a favor.
I expect even California's inept government will back down on this law.
Originally Posted By: Gasbuggy
You have to consider the length of some OCI's being too long to fully assess the consequences of this law, otherwise what is the point in commenting in here?
So, the automatic solution is to recommend 3,000 mile/3 month OCIs no matter what? Has there ever been a vehicle where even those OCIs were too optimistic? What would happen if that were the case?
And yes, shops can make mistakes. I'm sure that they have far bigger mistakes to worry about whether a Nissan's severe service interval is 3750 miles or 5000 miles.
We also have people posting on this site recommending far, far longer OCIs than OEM. Note that one of the distinctions is one isn't paying for professional advice here. The quick lubes are recommending 3,000 miles primarily to ensure a steady flow of business. Yes, that may have some side benefits to consumers who are always late anyhow (and an early recommendation at least keeps them within reason), or have a sludger, or whatever. But, they're far more interested in creating doubt about the OEM's OCI, using scare tactics, and even using a longer OCI to upsell engine flushes, which, if you listen to them, are definitely needed if you go 5,000 miles.
How will following OEM OCIs lead to increased engine failures?
There are major flaws in your logic. People that think like you do are the reason bad policies get created. You aim to take out a minority % of businesses using a 3/3000 recommendation. Disregard all the shops that use more reasonable ones. Disregard the obvious flaws in most consumers' ability to follow a maintenance schedule. And go to the far end of the spectrum, being the OEM's max recommendation, and somehow don't realize that it will lead to more engine failures.
What planet do you live on where the mass populace actually checks and tops off their oil and shows up for an oil changes on time?
People posting for longer intervals is not an adequate reply to my comment that many suggest and follow shorter than spec'd intervals. However, now that you brought it up, those suggesting longer OCIs usually accompany a filter recommendation to make it that long distance. Will CA pass another law forcing shops to use Fram Ultras rather than Fram Cores?
Sticking to a blind OEM OCI book interval will lead to more engine failures. Long OCI + the common lack of checking oil (which ALOT of people do) + tendency to delay changing = more engine failures. Some cars burn a quart every 1500 miles right off the show room floor. How many quarts will they have burned in 10,000 miles? How's that motor going to do? This should be common sense.
Thinking OEM is right can also be a mistake. Not that long ago BMW backtracked on their suggested OCI to the tune of cutting 5000 miles off the interval. Can you guess why they cut their suggested interval? Everyone who serviced their BMW outside of the dealer and had these "terrible" OCI suggestions below BMW spec was done a favor.
I expect even California's inept government will back down on this law.
First off, I never said my position wasn't that a quick lube couldn't recommend a shorter OCI no matter what. There should be some honesty there. Go by the severe service interval or the OLM. Ensure the customer knows that, and not arbitrarily 3000 miles. If you still want to get a customer back early, that's fine, but don't do it based on fear. We don't need quick lubes telling Audi drivers that they have to bring their vehicle in for a $200 oil change every 3000 miles because 15000 is way too much and just might cause problems, you know, because Audi has made mistakes before, and it might leave the consumer on the hook, and it's better to be safe than to be sorry, and whatever other platitudes a service writer can employ.
Since when is protecting people who are unable to follow a maintenance schedule or check the oil (as per manual instructions) more important than making sure that shops don't use dishonest tactics to waste people's money? So, it's okay to insist Joe Blow goes in every 3000 miles, irrespective of the fact that they sold him M1 EP for a 15000 mile guarantee and he's got a vehicle that can easily go at least 10000 miles, by telling him the OEM is wrong, the manual he carefully studied carefully is wrong, and the M1 EP guarantee is just a gimmick, and he must keep doing it every 3000 miles, just to protect the idiot who can't or won't even open his hood?
The Fram stuff is a red herring. If a filter is specified for an application, it can go the OEM distance. Usually though, it's the Puro fans who claim that 3000 miles is a maximum for a filter.
What we need is shops to choose to stand by their products. If you don't believe that M1 is good for 10,000 miles and M1 EP is good for 15,000 miles (and the same for Castrol and Amsoil, which other shops sell, too), then don't use the products for your customers' vehicles.
Since when is protecting people who are unable to follow a maintenance schedule or check the oil (as per manual instructions) more important than making sure that shops don't use dishonest tactics to waste people's money? So, it's okay to insist Joe Blow goes in every 3000 miles, irrespective of the fact that they sold him M1 EP for a 15000 mile guarantee and he's got a vehicle that can easily go at least 10000 miles, by telling him the OEM is wrong, the manual he carefully studied carefully is wrong, and the M1 EP guarantee is just a gimmick, and he must keep doing it every 3000 miles, just to protect the idiot who can't or won't even open his hood?
The Fram stuff is a red herring. If a filter is specified for an application, it can go the OEM distance. Usually though, it's the Puro fans who claim that 3000 miles is a maximum for a filter.
What we need is shops to choose to stand by their products. If you don't believe that M1 is good for 10,000 miles and M1 EP is good for 15,000 miles (and the same for Castrol and Amsoil, which other shops sell, too), then don't use the products for your customers' vehicles.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Calm down. It's not as bad as you think. They only want to require the oil change places to inform the owner what the manufacturer recommended drain intervals are. Nothing in the bill forces vehicle owners to extend their drain intervals. It's no different than forcing manufacturers to display the EPA mileage rating on new vehicles.
^That's THIS years version.
Calm down. It's not as bad as you think. They only want to require the oil change places to inform the owner what the manufacturer recommended drain intervals are. Nothing in the bill forces vehicle owners to extend their drain intervals. It's no different than forcing manufacturers to display the EPA mileage rating on new vehicles.
^That's THIS years version.
First and foremost, each incarnation of this is presented as an oil recycling bill and I think it's safe to say that the latest revision impacts the quick lube places proportionally more than the independent garages, where I'm sure the recommendations will likely take a different form. In my mind, that's not necessarily a bad thing. I would think that the prevalence of OLMs in vehicles these days makes this issue at least partially moot if someone's arguing about draconian government intervention. The draconian elements were in the first incarnation of this bill which is why it went from an unrealistic requirement for industry to consumer legislation that piggybacks on existing law.
My understanding is the customer can choose a different oil ( or bring their own oil from home as is done fairly frequently at a quick lube near me ) but they must inform the customer if it satisfies/deviates from the manufacturers spec...and the related mileage spec is to be told to the customer, placed on the given window sticker, or implemented on a service reminder function in the vehicle...instead of the rote and outdated 3 mo. / 3000 mile recommendation that typically might also involve up selling and/or unneeded servicing...which won't change. My guess is that quick lube places might adopt some form of qualifying questions that would necessitate up selling oil/OCI recommendations in response if this bill is made into law. Read: normal/severe service, driving habits, long periods of idling, stop & go, etc. I don't think you'll see anywhere near the same thing at most independent garages.
AFAIK, the latest revision of this bill from the end of January 2016 is still in committee and Jerry Brown seems to return more bills than he signs these days with the admonition that California already has 5000 statutes and probably doesn't need . It remains to be seen if this bill falls into that category and there subsequently will be four or five more revisions over the next year before it's signed into law.
My understanding is the customer can choose a different oil ( or bring their own oil from home as is done fairly frequently at a quick lube near me ) but they must inform the customer if it satisfies/deviates from the manufacturers spec...and the related mileage spec is to be told to the customer, placed on the given window sticker, or implemented on a service reminder function in the vehicle...instead of the rote and outdated 3 mo. / 3000 mile recommendation that typically might also involve up selling and/or unneeded servicing...which won't change. My guess is that quick lube places might adopt some form of qualifying questions that would necessitate up selling oil/OCI recommendations in response if this bill is made into law. Read: normal/severe service, driving habits, long periods of idling, stop & go, etc. I don't think you'll see anywhere near the same thing at most independent garages.
AFAIK, the latest revision of this bill from the end of January 2016 is still in committee and Jerry Brown seems to return more bills than he signs these days with the admonition that California already has 5000 statutes and probably doesn't need . It remains to be seen if this bill falls into that category and there subsequently will be four or five more revisions over the next year before it's signed into law.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
How are they gonna keep me from changing my oil ?
Drain plug and oil cap interlock for repeat offenders. Kinda like a DUI.
How are they gonna keep me from changing my oil ?
Drain plug and oil cap interlock for repeat offenders. Kinda like a DUI.
Move to Canada
I own a Quick Lube.
You are an [censored].
Both facts.
p.s Your Country was once Great.
3rd Fact.
Originally Posted By: Olas
3k changes are wasteful, and the proposed bill is a good idea,
But,
Quick Lube places have a reputation for dishonesty - why should they suddenly become honest when a bill gets introduced?
You are an [censored].
Both facts.
p.s Your Country was once Great.
3rd Fact.
Originally Posted By: Olas
3k changes are wasteful, and the proposed bill is a good idea,
But,
Quick Lube places have a reputation for dishonesty - why should they suddenly become honest when a bill gets introduced?
Instead of just grousing, how about straightening us out on the issues?
So people are now so stupid or lazy that the CA government wants to force businesses to read the owners manual to them?
Originally Posted By: tenderloin
oil filter registration is the key to a safer and cleaner world.......
And it needs a bio-metric data chip integrated
oil filter registration is the key to a safer and cleaner world.......
And it needs a bio-metric data chip integrated
The Socialist Republic of California, what else would you expect? Except the great escape from the state.
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