Inoperable Gun

[Robenstein]

Here is a nifty chart pulled together from a few sources. It gives you the average for a "one shot stop". There is a big difference when you go up the power and caliber scale.

You cause more catastrophic damage with better rounds.

The aim is never to just kill someone, it is to stop the threat before it can hurt you.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm

 

[KCJeep]

Countless examples of street shootings were perps took lethal hits and managed to keep fighting, even killing, others before they expired. You've never heard of the FBI shoot out that sent the FBI on a massive guns/ammo quest?

As mentioned, I could care less if the thug dies I want him out of the fight ASAP. Filling somebody full of fmj's that kill him on the operating table hours later does no good, I want them down and no longer shooting at me as soon as possible.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Countless examples of street shootings were perps took lethal hits and managed to keep fighting, even killing, others before they expired. You've never heard of the FBI shoot out that sent the FBI on a massive guns/ammo quest?

As mentioned, I could care less if the thug dies I want him out of the fight ASAP. Filling somebody full of fmj's that kill him on the operating table hours later does no good, I want them down and no longer shooting at me as soon as possible.



And the 9mm ammo of 1986 was junk compared to the modern 9mm JHP. So much so, that the FBI is going back to it.

 

[KCJeep]

Lots of LEO's are returning to the 9mm, ammo has come a long way.

 

[Win]

Purely anecdotally, I had a client ( now deceased ) that had several, um, gunshot incidents.

A 9mm, thigh wound, in and out, did not take him out of the fight. According to him, he finished the fight in his favor. I do not know what type of bullet was involved in this shooting. He told me the only reason he even went to the hospital, several hours after the event, IIRC, was an inability to completely stop bleeding from the wound.

A second incident with a .45 ACP round from a 1911 nearly killed him. He was shot at close range, raised his forearm in a defensive manner, took the round in the forearm, shattered the bones in his forearm, the round exited the arm and then went into his chest, fragments into his lungs, as well as other places, IIRC, but no major arteries were nicked. Very much out of the fight. The round was a Federal Hydrashok (sp?).

All of my other clients that were involved in gunplay were one and done, when they got shot. None of the wounds were fatal, obviously. I don't know what rounds or guns were involved. I remember one guy (also now deceased) saying he got shot with a "Hog Leg" but that covers a lot of guns.

I think, all things considered, bigger is better, but it's just not practical for me to carry a large caliber handgun.

 

[KCJeep]

Used to be street thugs often had poor quality weapons usually loaded with ball ammo and it wasn't unusual to see the wrong caliber ammo jammed in the gun. "Duck taped" grips were common too.

These days thugs with Glocks and what not are much more common and hollow point ammo is more common as well, although a fairly high percentage are still loaded with ball target stuff. I'd guess around half or a bit more.

One thing hasn't changed, thugs generally can't shoot well it's usually dumb (bad) luck when they hit anything. I'm talking about street level thug crooks gang bangers whatever.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Used to be street thugs often had poor quality weapons usually loaded with ball ammo and it wasn't unusual to see the wrong caliber ammo jammed in the gun. "Duck taped" grips were common too.

These days thugs with Glocks and what not are much more common and hollow point ammo is more common as well, although a fairly high percentage are still loaded with ball target stuff. I'd guess around half or a bit more.

One thing hasn't changed, thugs generally can't shoot well it's usually dumb (bad) luck when they hit anything. I'm talking about street level thug crooks gang bangers whatever.


Shooting the gun sideways doesn't help.

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein

Shooting the gun sideways doesn't help.

Exactly.

One of my more memorable instances occurred in the early 90's. One guy was in a van's drivers seat and the other standing next to the van inside the passenger door with the passenger door open, standing on the street. So they were about 4 feet away from each other when the deal went bad. The guy on the street had a 9mm the driver a .38, both weapons were emptied and neither man was hit at all. They managed to shoot the van up pretty good though.

Hilarious and sad all at the same time.

 

[OneEyeJack]

I went back today and looked at reports where someone stayed in the fight after being hit. This kind of thing actually happened but the numbers are overwhelmed by incidents where one hit took someone out of the fight, lethal or not. It appears that being hit and staying in the fight is news and gets appropriate attention.

The comments about marksmanship in the previous post are appropriate. I just read through a report where 487 documented shots were fired between 11 people with no one hit. The fight ended when the bad guys ran out of ammo and were trapped. It's not like the movies or TV. All you have to do to improve your chances in a firefight is learn the trade craft and become a good shot and lean to use cover effectively.

 

[2cool]

Originally Posted By: otis24
I wouldn't fix the gun just to use up some ammo you have. I would keep it for a wall hanger, or get it fixed so that it is operable, if you like the gun. Is it a S&W, Colt, etc...? If it is an off brand, cheaper gun, I would leave it as is. The cost of repairs may be more than the gun is worth.


+1

 

[FastGame]

Oh where Oh where could bobbob be...Oh where Oh where could he be... he always starts threads and never comes back...not to say thanks or get pats on the back....Oh where Oh where could he be...

 

[Oldmoparguy1]

Originally Posted By: FastGame
Oh where Oh where could bobbob be...Oh where Oh where could he be... he always starts threads and never comes back...not to say thanks or get pats on the back....Oh where Oh where could he be...

Driveby post.

 

[CT8]

Wad cutters work better than a round nose. Shot placement is most important. My dad a WWII anti aircraft /artillery soldier would tell me a miss with a 22 lr is just like a miss with a 50 caliber.

 

[another Todd]

Originally Posted By: totegoat
Wadcutters are designed for shooting paper targets, but can be shot at anything, including gelatin I suppose.


Indeed, wadcutters can be shot at anything.

 

[stchman]

This almost sounds like a .380ACP vs. 9mm vs. 40S&W vs. .45ACP argument.

Nothing the OP said that he/she was going to carry the antique and use it for self defense.

I do agree that using a well made JHP round (RGS, Speer GD, Federal Hydrashock, Hornady CD) is a better option than cheap ball ammo.