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#3143937 - 10/03/13 02:26 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: stchman]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13002
Loc: Chicago, IL
We've discussed the OP's question tons of times. It was done, in part, to remedy oil consumption and to provide maximum protection for the extreme uses (high-speed runs, racing).

Modern 5w40s are proving to be just as capable, hence the move away from TWS.
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#3143938 - 10/03/13 02:26 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: pscholte]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 31445
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: pscholte
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
It's an Ultimate Driving Machine. They never claimed it to be an Ultimate Reliability Machine. LOL


Love the sense of humor, QP. I am sure you love your Bimmer but you can take the comments in stride. Wish more could. My Audi A6 twin turbo was FABULOUS to drive but it also was not a stranger to the Audi service bays.

Ha!

And to be honest, my 530i isn't exactly an Ultimate Driving Machine either. An M car may be.

Alas, I see no reason to get rid of it and I'm certainly not itching to deplete my bank account for a quickly depreciating asset that's going to sit in the garage most of the time because I don't really drive much. And if I want some fun, I just use my bike.
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'02 530i (Edge HM 10W-40)
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#3143973 - 10/03/13 02:44 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: Quattro Pete]
pscholte Offline


Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 5180
Loc: Der Schwarzwaldwesten
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: pscholte
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
It's an Ultimate Driving Machine. They never claimed it to be an Ultimate Reliability Machine. LOL


Love the sense of humor, QP. I am sure you love your Bimmer but you can take the comments in stride. Wish more could. My Audi A6 twin turbo was FABULOUS to drive but it also was not a stranger to the Audi service bays.

Ha!

And to be honest, my 530i isn't exactly an Ultimate Driving Machine either. An M car may be.

Alas, I see no reason to get rid of it and I'm certainly not itching to deplete my bank account for a quickly depreciating asset that's going to sit in the garage most of the time because I don't really drive much. And if I want some fun, I just use my bike.




Understand. With the prices of some boutique oils and a large oil sump that rapid depreciation just might eventually make the oil the most expensive part of the car! :-)
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#3144004 - 10/03/13 03:07 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: d00df00d]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13002
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Maybe that's a typo on API SJ?



The older "Castrol TWS" was API SJ. The new "Castrol Edge Professional TWS" is API SN.
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2011 BMW M3 sedan ZCP

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#3144006 - 10/03/13 03:08 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: dparm]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 10037
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: dparm
We've discussed the OP's question tons of times. It was done, in part, to remedy oil consumption and to provide maximum protection for the extreme uses (high-speed runs, racing).

Modern 5w40s are proving to be just as capable, hence the move away from TWS.

Right.

Also the FF on M series engines for which the 10W-60 grade is still specified is only a 30wt oil so for normal use the engine doesn't actually require anything heavier.
For street use a 0W/5W-40 is all you need and even for occasional track use if you oil temp's are kept under control. It is only under some pretty extreme racing conditions where oil temp's may approach 300F. Most owners rarely see oil temp's even exceed 212F.
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#3144007 - 10/03/13 03:08 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: pscholte]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13002
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: pscholte

Understand. With the prices of some boutique oils and a large oil sump that rapid depreciation just might eventually make the oil the most expensive part of the car! :-)



The change interval is 15,000 miles, so it's not exactly like they want you to shell out $200 every 6 months. Plus the first 3 changes are on BMW's dime.
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#3144011 - 10/03/13 03:09 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: CATERHAM]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13002
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: dparm
We've discussed the OP's question tons of times. It was done, in part, to remedy oil consumption and to provide maximum protection for the extreme uses (high-speed runs, racing).

Modern 5w40s are proving to be just as capable, hence the move away from TWS.

Right.

Also the FF on M series engines for which the 10W-60 grade is still specified is only a 30wt oil so for normal use the engine doesn't actually require anything heavier.
For street use a 0W/5W-40 is all you need and even for occasional track use if you oil temp's are kept under control. It is only under some pretty extreme racing conditions where oil temp's may approach 300F. Most owners rarely see oil temp's even exceed 212F.



I'll have mine on track next weekend and will report back on your oil temp speculation. smile
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#3144017 - 10/03/13 03:13 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: dparm]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 31445
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: dparm
The change interval is 15,000 miles,

BTW, they've dialed it down to 10,000 miles starting with 2014 model year. But yeah, the cost of the oil is really non significant in the grand scheme of things. I'm sure pscholte was just joking about this.
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'02 530i (Edge HM 10W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)

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#3144038 - 10/03/13 03:29 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: stchman]
stchman Offline


Registered: 09/25/13
Posts: 1495
Loc: St. Louis, MO
In a thread right below this one, BMW says you can use 10W60 or 5W30 as long as it's BMW oil or Castrol Edge.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Owner/SyntheticEngineOils.aspx

Is Castrol Edge the ultimate oil or is BMW just in bed with Castrol?
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#3144063 - 10/03/13 04:00 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: Quattro Pete]
pscholte Offline


Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 5180
Loc: Der Schwarzwaldwesten
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: dparm
The change interval is 15,000 miles,

BTW, they've dialed it down to 10,000 miles starting with 2014 model year. But yeah, the cost of the oil is really non significant in the grand scheme of things. I'm sure pscholte was just joking about this.


pscholte was...you have been exposed to my sense of humor longer than the others...be sure to let me know if it has had any deleterious effects on you. :-)

PS. I told Caterham I thought I had been hacked by the Elves as their way of getting back at me for straying away from Castrol. Now I am sure of it. Sometimes when I try to select Forum List it takes me to the Castrol Zone. Downright scary stuff.


Edited by pscholte (10/03/13 04:04 PM)
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Life is a lot like oil: very slippery and doesn't (usually) have the fragrance of Gummi Bären

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#3144078 - 10/03/13 04:15 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: stchman]
pscholte Offline


Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 5180
Loc: Der Schwarzwaldwesten
Originally Posted By: stchman
In a thread right below this one, BMW says you can use 10W60 or 5W30 as long as it's BMW oil or Castrol Edge.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Owner/SyntheticEngineOils.aspx

Is Castrol Edge the ultimate oil or is BMW just in bed with Castrol?


They probably have a "strategic partnership."
_________________________
Life is a lot like oil: very slippery and doesn't (usually) have the fragrance of Gummi Bären

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#3144094 - 10/03/13 04:36 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: Quattro Pete]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 10161
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
BTW, they've dialed it down to 10,000 miles starting with 2014 model year.

Probably because the engine lineup is completely different as of MY2014.

...I'd have ended that with a smiley, but in this case "different" involves the death of all naturally aspirated engines. frown
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2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Castrol GTX 5w-20

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#3144095 - 10/03/13 04:38 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: stchman]
d00df00d Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 10161
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: stchman
In a thread right below this one, BMW says you can use 10W60 or 5W30 as long as it's BMW oil or Castrol Edge.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Owner/SyntheticEngineOils.aspx

Is Castrol Edge the ultimate oil or is BMW just in bed with Castrol?

Did you read my big post earlier in the thread?

Castrol and BMW collaborate. Castrol designs oils specifically for BMW, and BMW designs its engines with those oils.
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Castrol GTX 5w-20

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#3144103 - 10/03/13 04:49 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: stchman]
vinu_neuro Offline


Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 1057
Loc: Chicago / IN
Someone can ask BMW why they couldn't get it done with a 5W-40 or 0W-40 when Porsche and Ferrari do with their high-revving engines. But CATERHAM is wrong to go around telling people to use a viscosity that's substantially lower than what the engine manufacturer has specified. In addition to temperature, speed, load, composite surface roughness matter as well. You don't have all of that, BMW does. As oil is an engine component, everything else is designed with it as the specification. Believe it or not, there's more to tribology than viscosity index = good and zddp = good. Stick to what they recommend, certainly don't go two grades lower.

The more I've read on this subject, the more I've come to respect engine manufacturerss oil specifications for their respective engines. They do screw up now and again, but they're still the ones that produced the engine and have far more data and expertise than anyone here. It's fine being conservative, eg. shortening oci's if you're not comfortable, but I certainly wouldn't be aggressive in going below what they call for in important areas like viscosity.

Maybe it's a typo, but interestingly on the website BMW doesn't specify the standard oil for the new M cars, but the low-SAPS diesel Castrol Edge Professional OE.
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04 Honda Accord Coupe V6 6MT | M1 EP 0W-20

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#3144109 - 10/03/13 04:58 PM Re: BMW and the 10W60 thing???!!! [Re: stchman]
bdcardinal Offline


Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 8704
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted By: stchman
And a ZR1 won't be driven hard?


I would say about 95% of them are owned by old people that just putz them around town and bought a ZR1 because it was the most expensive Vette the dealer had.
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1995 Ford Mustang GT

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