CR-V AWD during a snow storm. Tell us stories...

[Falken]

WOW thanks for the vid!!

That is some awesome FWD performance.

I really checked out the back of the hatchback and saw now 4wd badge...

Maybe I'll skip the complexities of the AWD system. But changing out the fluids in the diff etc. would be simple for me to do, so it wouldn't bother me for the added maintenance for the AWD.

Would just like to have the mags and extra goodies that come with the FWD model trim one level up that costs the same as the AWD version.

If FWD did this well in snow that deep, I can imagine the AWD CR-V would be amazing.

The reasons I am not really looking at Subaru is I just like Hondas better, better resale, more popular, and less fuss for parts and repairs.

Also, Honda uses a conventional engine. I am really not a fan of the Boxer engine at all. It just doesn't add any real world benefit in a family hauler.

Also, I think for autos Subaru is heading towards CVT... I really don't like CVTs at all. And if the 2013 model auto is still offered without CVT it is a 4 speed trans. Even my Fit has five speeds, so that is another oddity.

CR-V just seems to be a more regular car, and Honda "Ugly Stick" designs attract me. Subarus looks don't really appeal to me, but they don't really turn me off either.

 

[Hokiefyd]

That video was an AWD CR-V. They put the "AWD" emblems on the back of the 2010s and 2011s (and continued that to the current model), but in 2009 and prior, it was just a very small "4WD" decal on the back window. You can *barely* make it on on my back window, just to the left and under the rear wiper arm post.

And as to the added maintenance on the AWD system, the only added maintenance point is indeed the fluid in the rear unit. Unlike on our Acura, the transmission PTO on the Honda is lubricated with the transmission fluid (the Acura's PTO takes 75W-90). The rear unit in the CR-V (at least from my generation) takes 2 quarts of $10 DPF-II every 30-40k miles. And that's it. It's a very low-maintenance system...no electronics, no lights...out of sight, out of mind. You very rarely hear of any problems with these. Every now and again, you'll hear of clicking or clunking coming from the rear when turning a tight circle, like you had a tight limited slip unit. The fix is simply exchanging the fluid.

That said, the newer generation has a rear unit that has at least some aspect of electronic control to it. I still don't think it's user-controllable (like with the RAV4's center lock), but the PCM can proactively add some rear clutch to aid in vehicle stability, even before there is a speed difference between the front and rear. It sounds like it's getting closer to their VTM-4 system. It adds clutch to the rear during heavy acceleration to help reduce torque steer and increase vehicle stability. Our Acura just squats and goes when you mash the pedal. Any FWD car with 265 horses should tug a little at the steering wheel when you push it around through corners, but the Acura stays very planted. Is the new CR-V's AWD system capable of that kind of vehicle stability improvement, even without wheel spin? I don't know, I haven't spent enough time in one (just a short test-drive).

I did test drive a 2012 FWD CR-V and a 2012 AWD CR-V, and preferred the ride of the FWD one better. I don't know if it was the tires (the FWD one had the Continental CrossContact LXes and the AWD one had some funky Bridgestone Dueler Sports or something) or the weight difference, but the FWD one did feel a little lighter on its feet and a little more tossable. That's likely due to the weight difference. Another note: beginning in 2012, the FWD and AWD models have different final drives. The AWD in 2012 keeps the 4.50:1 final drive of the previous generation (which used the same ratio for FWD and AWD), but the FWD in 2012 has a slightly taller 4.44:1 final drive as I recall.

 

[eljefino]

You keep saying over and over how you love the Fit. Keep it!

Mazda should find a buyer. Their handling is well liked by a subset of people.

I'd try and wait through the winter before pulling the trigger. Unless you can find a left over 2012.

 

[Thermo1223]

Originally Posted By: Falken
WOW thanks for the vid!!

That is some awesome FWD performance.

I really checked out the back of the hatchback and saw now 4wd badge...

Maybe I'll skip the complexities of the AWD system. But changing out the fluids in the diff etc. would be simple for me to do, so it wouldn't bother me for the added maintenance for the AWD.

Would just like to have the mags and extra goodies that come with the FWD model trim one level up that costs the same as the AWD version.

If FWD did this well in snow that deep, I can imagine the AWD CR-V would be amazing.

The reasons I am not really looking at Subaru is I just like Hondas better, better resale, more popular, and less fuss for parts and repairs.

Also, Honda uses a conventional engine. I am really not a fan of the Boxer engine at all. It just doesn't add any real world benefit in a family hauler.

Also, I think for autos Subaru is heading towards CVT... I really don't like CVTs at all. And if the 2013 model auto is still offered without CVT it is a 4 speed trans. Even my Fit has five speeds, so that is another oddity.

CR-V just seems to be a more regular car, and Honda "Ugly Stick" designs attract me. Subarus looks don't really appeal to me, but they don't really turn me off either.


Actually Honda & Subaru are one in the same with Honda having a nudge in reliability. Parts & service are usually top notch. Certainly better than some others.

I know I don't get the 4 speed thing either but they are a long the lines of if it ain't broke, don't fix it. You never will have a problem with the 4EAT unless it is abused heavily.

 

[Falken]

I am taking the advice to keep the Fit, it is stressing me out too much lol. I figure a few grand lost on the sub-par resale of the Mazda is at least a calculable loss.

On the Fit I actually look forward with anticipation to even check the oil. Now that is probably love.

Every time I am at McDonalds I grab a pile of brown napkins to check the engine oil and trans fluid level, thinking about the little fella.

Wix filters and only synthetics for the engine and trans.

I think that I'll fall in love with the CR-V as well. At least I don't feel bad because the wife is starting to really love Hondas as well.

Anyway, when we sell the Mazda I plan on calling the CR-V "Her car". So when I am changing the oil on it in the driveway on a Saturday, it is to look after "Her car".

Ahh, the old bowling ball with Homer written on it tactic. But I would feel good about how safe her and the kids would be in the CR-V. I plan on letting her use it for work and groceries and I only plan to use it when I go cross country skiing or something.

I just don't really trust an accident in the Fit, as fun as the little car is, because it is just so darn little.

Also, her feeling "safer" in the CR-V would hopefully bring out the driver in her. I read that it has 5 star crash rating which is great.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
As much as I like our mild winters, I'd like at least ONE good snowfall, you know, just to "test the system"!


Youll find a horrid stink of burning brakes and clutches, and overheated fluid.

At least if you actually drive with it in real conditions more than five minutes..

Per firsthand experience.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
As much as I like our mild winters, I'd like at least ONE good snowfall, you know, just to "test the system"!


Youll find a horrid stink of burning brakes and clutches, and overheated fluid.

At least if you actually drive with it in real conditions more than five minutes..

Per firsthand experience.


Did your driver realize their is VSA off button(hopefully on CRV) I encountered the exact same thing and was really disappointed with my MDX's SH AWD as it would slow itself down to get stuck(12-20" deep snow) and smell like burnt brakes/clutches with stability light flickering madly all the way.

I did a RTFM and realized in tough stuff or stuck you click VSA off and no more traction control. It motored through more or less without drama and smell.

 

[Falken]

So on a CR-V you can turn off traction control or are you stuck having to pull an ABS fuse?

Up here in Canada we can't disable ABS, so if this slip and grip system burns brakes to lock the spinning tire to redirect torque that is pretty bad.

One of my teachers in school complained about his traction control on a RWD Ford Mustang. But he was able to disable it with a button I think. He said it ate through brakes on snowy roads something fierce.

I always wondered if I had the 2011+ Fit with Traction Control if the Fit would be even better in the Winter. I'm now glad that it doesn't if it locks rotors and burns through pads.

I thought that I'd also add that I'd love to be able to disable ABS in the Winter months. If it is slippery out I would like a bit of control over static resistance where your wheels can lock under driver control to allow snow, gravel, salt, and sand to form a "wedge" in front of the tires to stop faster.

ABS prevents this "wedge" from forming in front of the wheels.

I had a 2006 Cobalt that stopped better in the Winter. I didn't have ABS on my base model and it works better.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
As much as I like our mild winters, I'd like at least ONE good snowfall, you know, just to "test the system"!


Youll find a horrid stink of burning brakes and clutches, and overheated fluid.

At least if you actually drive with it in real conditions more than five minutes..

Per firsthand experience.


Did your driver realize their is VSA off button(hopefully on CRV) I encountered the exact same thing and was really disappointed with my MDX's SH AWD as it would slow itself down to get stuck(12-20" deep snow) and smell like burnt brakes/clutches with stability light flickering madly all the way.

I did a RTFM and realized in tough stuff or stuck you click VSA off and no more traction control. It motored through more or less without drama and smell.


Likely not. Nothing was disabled and I doubt he knew to do this.

We were driving VT rte 100 for MANY miles, and it was just covered in snow. From my recollection, the TC Off function is really only to allow wheelspin in situations where one is indeed stuck. Maybe that is incorrect on my part...

Frankly though, one would think on a vehicle that is sold for having AWD and has a 4WD badge on the back, that one could drive in low traction situations with the traction control on and it not burn the vehicle up.

Apparently not.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Falken
So on a CR-V you can turn off traction control or are you stuck having to pull an ABS fuse?


At least on the United States models you can, yes. Per typical Honda, there is a "VSA OFF" button on the dash which disables the Vehicle Stability Assist system, which includes the brake-based traction control. Highly advisable for tougher conditions so the brakes aren't over-cycled (per owner's manual). Every vehicle with a traction control system I've owned has recommended this. It's very easy to over-cycle the brakes with brake-based traction control. I did it all the time in my old Cadillacs. Brakes do stink when they heat up. The system will eventually turn itself off to prevent irreparable damage to the equipment; the smell is just "cosmetic" if you will...a nuisance only...and a natural symptom of the situation (like a burning rubber smell from a spinning tire). It's really inescapable given what's going on with the vehicle. The system will disable itself if it gets too bad.

 

[rjundi]

It is pretty clear when its time to disable the VSA. A yellow triangle with exclamation point flickers when traction control is activitated or stability control is enabled by computer.

If you find it running flashing continuously or slowing you down to nothing as you drive you simply disable the system until driving clears up.

I have been in a Toyota Sienna AWD and BMW 328ix both with all-seasons in tougher conditions. They both stank just like my Acura did.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
It is pretty clear when its time to disable the VSA. A yellow triangle with exclamation point flickers when traction control is activitated or stability control is enabled by computer.

If you find it running flashing continuously or slowing you down to nothing as you drive you simply disable the system until driving clears up.

I have been in a Toyota Sienna AWD and BMW 328ix both with all-seasons in tougher conditions. They both stank just like my Acura did.


What was interesting was that the CR-V didnt flash the yellow light a whole lot on our trip. I suppose the AWD was operating and working sufficiently so there wasnt a ton of slip noted.

Yet it still stunk...

 

[Bill in Utah]

Getting into this late but as someone who owned a Subaru their AWD system is beyond amazing.


But if you gave me one I'd prob sell it because I'd rather have something less complex. You CAN get around in a normal FWD with snow tires MUCH better than AWD with all seasons on it.

Plus the FWD is much simpler. MUCH. I sold my Subaru and replaced it with a FWD only vehicle for my wife who gets out well before the plows come for her 22 mile commute one way. She makes it to work and home keeping it on the road.

Me... I drive way too many miles in a Corolla with snows and yet seem to make it just fine. Now I'm sure folks will say sure because you drive with plowed roads...

Here is a cell phone shot of the other day... 22 inches unplowed that night...

If you are going to keep the vehicle and put miles on it I like it simpler... Cheaper to get, insure, maintain and operate.

Back on topic.. I've seen the AWD Honda systems here and they are okay. Nothing really amazing and there are better systems out there IMO. If I liked the CRV I'd get one FWD and a extra set of rims/snows...

Take care, Bill

 

[Astro14]

You're the voice of reason Bill!

 

[Falken]

I am starting to side with the FWD SUV logic.

I always buy very good snow tires and don't run them until they are bald.

If I really wanted to start going in deeper for hiking and snowshoeing, I think I would have to change to an actual 4x4.

But, I plan on doing so many other things like getting groceries and trips to the mall, that I don't want to commit to an off-road vehicle that I only use for outdoor stuff less than 1% of the time.

That was an impressive photo Bill!! Thanks!

 

[Hokiefyd]

If you buy good snow tires, you will rely less on the additional traction offered by an AWD system, yes.

It's commonly said that FWD on snow tires will offer better traction than AWD on all-seasons. I wouldn't argue against that. By the same logic, AWD on snow tires will offer better traction than FWD on snow tires. There's always a level of performance beyond which you don't personally see any return on your investment, and that'll differ for everybody, depending on where you live, where you drive, how you drive, etc.

If you get around fine now with FWD and snow tires, you'll get around fine in a FWD CR-V with snow tires.