why mazda miata so expensive

[expat]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Spazdog -
Early Miata designers based the general look/feel/vibe to a Spitfire.
I loved my Triumph Spitfire.


I always heard/thought that they were aiming a little bit higher than that, like basing it on the Lotus Elan, no?

As I remember they used both the Spitfire and the Élan during development.
As a long time Spitfire owner (Euro spec 1500) I very much liked the Miata, but it seemed to lack some of the Rawness of the Spit
Like:
If you take that corner the right way, I'll make you feel like an F1 driver. but if you do it wrong, I'll Kill you!

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Spazdog -
Early Miata designers based the general look/feel/vibe to a Spitfire.
I loved my Triumph Spitfire.


IIRC, Mazda was actually emulating the Elan, and even fessed up to having a couple of those old Lotuses on property during the development of the first gen Miata.
The first gen car certainly resembles an Elan more than it does a Spit.
Anyway, the Spit was nothing more nor less than a Herald in drag.
As old Brit cars go, I had both a Spit and an MGB.
The MG was a better car in every way, live axle or no.
The MGB had a great engine, long-lived and reliable, while the later Triumph 1500 was not known for long life.
The only real advantage of the Spit was that the thing was so easy to work on, since the whole front end lifted up, just like an E-type, while the MG had a narrowish hood.
Ease of access is a good thing on an old Brit car, since you'll need it on a pretty regular basis.

 

[mechtech2]

Spaz -
HP to weight is what is important, not just the engine HP rating.
At around 2,400 lbs and 120 HP, the early Miatas were underpowered.
It really isn't fair to isolate a few ancient designs to compare the Mata with HP wise.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Spaz -
HP to weight is what is important, not just the engine HP rating.
At around 2,400 lbs and 120 HP, the early Miatas were underpowered.
It really isn't fair to isolate a few ancient designs to compare the Mata with HP wise.


What from that era would you have me compare it to?

The 53hp Geo Metro Convertible?
The Australian Ford built Capri? The XR2 model did have a turbocharged variant of the same engine that was in the Miata and made about 130hp, but cutting the roof off of a Mazda 323 chassis left it with significantly less chassis integrity than the MX-5. The base model used a variant of the Mazda B-engine with 100hp
From 1995 on you could get a Toyota Paseo convertible with all of 93hp
The Honda delSol was available with a B16. But most sold were D-series. And the delSol was a bit weighty, was a targa instead of a convertible, and it was FWD.
The Suzuki X-90 was.....yeah, nothing good. Not competition for the MX-5

That was the competition in the US. Flexi-flier Aussie turbo Capri and VTEC B16 del Sol were the only things that could outpower it.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

Spazdog -
Early Miata designers based the general look/feel/vibe to a Spitfire.
I loved my Triumph Spitfire.

Quote'
IIRC, Mazda was actually emulating the Elan, and even fessed up to having a couple of those old Lotuses on property during the development of the first gen Miata.
The first gen car certainly resembles an Elan more than it does a Spit.
Anyway, the Spit was nothing more nor less than a Herald in drag.
As old Brit cars go, I had both a Spit and an MGB.
The MG was a better car in every way, live axle or no.[end quote]

I think Mazda may have been looking to produce a lightweight sports car in the vane of the Élan and The Spitfire, both of which weigh in at a little over 1500lbs in non U.S. spec.
They came close in weight, dispite the Miata have a VERY much stronger and rigid body.

MGB'S tended to be much heavier (by about 700lbs) and was never considered to be in the same class as the Spitfire, who's MG rival would, of course, have been the
MG Midget/AH Sprite

All the British Leyland cars of that era had work- a- day car roots, the Spitfire was ( as you say) Herald based, the Midget -A35' the MGB Austin Cambridge

The lotus was in a leage of it's own.

 

[fdcg27]

The MGB did use mechanical and suspension elements common to other BMC offerings, including the lever arm shocks, but it also had a unibody shell of its very own of pretty good rigidity.
My MGB was a more solid car than is my BMW, but the MGB was designed as an open car from the start while the e36 wasn't.
I understand that the MGB and the Spit are of different classes.
My point was simply that the MGB was a better car than was the Spit, and well worth the extra dollars.
I agree that the Elan was in a league of its own, in looks, driving dynamics and fragility.
Getting back to the OP, the Miata is worth the money because its offers the daily driver reliability and longevity of a modern Japanese car along with driving entertainment and a drop top for nice days.
The current car has had its proportions ruined by the need to make room for the folding hard top, though.
None of the retractable hard top convertibles look right to me,
even when equiped with the alternative soft top where available.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

I understand that the MGB and the Spit are of different classes.
My point was simply that the MGB was a better car than was the Spit, and well worth the extra dollars.


There was the TR6 to compete with the MGB both on the track and showroom floor.

Both have advantages and disadvantages. US Spec TR6es didn't have Lucas fuel injection and enjoy only a small hp advantage over the MGB (but loads more torque) But the TR6 is nose heavy and body on frame construction where the MGB was a lighter unibody construction.

 

[expat]

If British Letland had there act together, they would have made somthing like the Miata in the 70' or early 80's
They had the knowledge, they just needed better management and a workforce that gave a darn!

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: expat
If British Letland had there act together, they would have made somthing like the Miata in the 70' or early 80's
They had the knowledge, they just needed better management and a workforce that gave a darn!


^^^
This!
Instead, resources were wasted on useless projects like the MGC, the TR7, orginally really hideous and not even offered as an open car until later, and the mechanically horrid Stag, a sort of Brit SL.
If they had had better manangement, they would have had a more compelling line of cars to sell, which would have done much to enable better wages and conditions for their workers.
The workers didn't really care since the sense of impending doom was already pervasive.
Let's not even talk about the effect that the Ausitn Marina and the Rover 3500 had on the reputation of British cars in this country.
Later, the Brits would actually take a perfectly durable and reliable Honda Acura Legend and make of it a car that was neither.
The US market ceased to exist for most of the British industry in 1980, when the last MGBs were sold.
They were brand new vintage cars by then.
The TR7 soldiered on briefly thereafter, along with the TR8, which used the same old Buick alloy V-8 that had been used in countless Rovers, the MGB GT V-8, the Morgan Plus 8, as well as the Range Rover and a few others I'm sure I've missed.
Like VW, British Leyland managed to lose a solid foothold in this market during the decade of the 'seventies.
Unlike VW, all of those marques have either been sold off, or have died.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: expat
If British Leyland had there act together, they would have made somthing like the Miata in the 70' or early 80's
They had the knowledge, they just needed better management and a workforce that gave a darn!


Sad but true

 

[bustednutz]

All I know is that I love my 06' MX-5 Grand Touring. All the options, great power to weight ratio, 50/50 balanced and a complete blast to drive. I try to keep it nice and its only got 28k miles on it. Current fill is Napa Synthetic 5w20 and a M1 Oil Filter.

 

[fdcg27]

Only 28K on a six year old car?
Shame on you!
You should use it more.

 

[bustednutz]

Thats nothing, my neighbor has a 1986 3 series BMW with only 60k miles on it.
Its tan and rather boring to look at, but its babied and like brand new. Rarely driven.

 

[expat]

Also, with car like a Miata, I guess you can expect a pretty good resale value.
What other reasonably priced car bought in 1990 would still have a reasonable value if sold in 2012?

 

[ARB1977]

My tacoma is 10 years old and to this day puts a smile on my face.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: M1Accord
They run around $26k before processing, tax, and tag fees at a no-haggle place for a base model. It seems that is a lot of money for such as tiny car. What is so special about it? In addition, why is it so bad in fuel economy, which is under 30 mpg for such a tiny car with a tiny engine?


IME you are paying a premium for the no haggle experience. So you may be $1k off to begin with.

I think all the basics that we're given before all stand. As for MPGs, it's the standard thing. More gears but less beneficial ones. Too many I termediate gears, IMO. That said, most wouldn't care that much about high 20s in that car. That said also, I can pretty easily get low 30s in my 135i convertible, so I'll bet the miata can deliver that too.

Actually, before getting my 135i, my choices were between picking up a mint W107 Mercedes from the late 70s/early 80s, or a miata. The Mercedes fit me, the miata which I really liked just didnt fit comfortably. In the end a rear seat drove my decision, but the miata is an awesome car, if it fits.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: expat
If British Letland had there act together, they would have made somthing like the Miata in the 70' or early 80's
They had the knowledge, they just needed better management and a workforce that gave a darn!



True, but that being said I would NOT turn down a rally, or rallycross prepped Metro 6R4.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: hardcore302
too much money for not enough car

You must not have ever driven one or enjoy true balance and a nimble feel. They are quality cars. I know because I had one. Best sports car I've ever driven for the money. With the top down, on a twisty, hilly road....NOTHING can put a smile on my face like that car did. I had a 6 speed manual 2007 MX5. I miss that car like no other. Quality components and just a good, tight feel all the way around....including the paint job.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
antique -
EXACTLY!
The early ones were light and fun. Handling and braking were great - the whole general feel. the only thing was a lack of HP.
Now they are bloated ticks.

My '07 was light and fun. Brakes were exceptional in comparison to a recent Mustang GT I had. A "bloated tick" Really? Not from my experience at all. Of course no matter how much horsepower you give a car, most people just want more. In the case of the Miata, it does not NEED more to be a very sporty and nimble car that is designed with balance in mind. Everything is so well matched in this car that if you gave it much more power, you would lose something in my opinion.

 

[SteveSRT8]

I had a 65 TR-4 and a 72 MGB-GT. I have driven several Spitfires as well at events way back when.

Frankly the Spitfire was amazing for the way you could beat it around. My TR-4 would easily pull it in a straight line and run all the way to 120 mph, but when it came time to stop and turn, no contest. The GT would be a mile back wheezing to catch up.

But the Spit was a spindly little thing with no substance, absolutely a tin can. God help you in a crash, you'll need it.