Any Volvo gurus out there?

[John_Snyder]

I promised to try to help a friend/coworker with a very irritating issue she's had with her 2002 Volvo S40 (automatic with only 150k km) over the past couple of years. She still likes the car - but even after spending quite a lot of money trying to fix this issue, it still remains. She's essentially at her wits end with it - but hates to part with it, as it works perfectly when it chooses to. All routine maintenance has been done as per Volvo's schedule, and the car looks great.

The problem is that it intermittently won't start. Put the key in, turn the ignition "ON", and everything lights up as normal. Turn it to "START" - and nothing happens. Not even a hint at cranking.

This only seems to occur after the car has had a short trip (typically shopping), and has only been off for 1/2 hour or less. When this happens, waiting another 1/2 hour to 1 hour seems to allow everything to return to normal. It hasn't ever failed first thing in the morning, or after work. Weather seems to have no impact. It can do this winter or summer. It doesn't do it every time either - so it's difficult to predict.

All servicing has been done by a local Volvo dealer - and there's quite a list. Specifically pertaining to this problem:

- Replaced starter - no change.
- Replaced antenna for immobilizer - no change.
- Replaced immobilizer module - no change.
- Bypassed immobilizer module entirely - no change.
- Replaced ignition switch - no change.
- Replaced engine temp sensor (apparently reading higher than usual at ambient) - still no change.

The battery was also changed a couple of years ago and tests fine.

At first, this only happened maybe every couple of months, but it has gradually gotten more frequent. Each time something was changed - she hoped it was fixed - but eventually was disappointed again.

If anybody has any good ideas to look for, it would be greatly appreciated! She's spent SOOO much money on it at this dealer she's reluctant to start over somewhere else - so I thought I'd try asking here first. It doesn't make much sense to me - but I'm not entirely familiar with how the powertrain controls operate and interact in Volvos to be able to properly diagnose. I'm just hoping that somebody on here somewhere has seen this before!

Thanks very much in advance,
John

 

[Pablo]

I don't know the S40 platform very well, but I would guess possibly the shift interlock switch.

Best advice is to ask at a Volvo specific board, like the brickboard.com.

 

[db130]

s40 board

 

[rshunter]

I can't say it's directly comparable to this Volvo, but I've had the same thing happen on a Volkswagen. I've also heard of others having this issue with the S40, and they were related to the neutral safety system, IIRC.

 

[synthetic_crazy]

We had a couple Volvo's that had so many problems we spent ten grand in four years just trying to keep them running. The best fix for our Volvo's was to sell them and buy a more reliable brand. Unfortunately, any vehicle bearing the Volvo name makes a mechanic think of buying a bigger boat after you leave. In regard to your friend's Volvo, it might be the computer. Our one Volvo was plagued with problems that supposedly stemmed from a bad computer.

 

[Kuato]

2 things I can think of:

The Neutral Switch has already been mentioned.

In Jeeps, there is a Crankshaft Position Sensor which tells the engine when to fire. On the 99-01 models with certain engines, these went bad at around 90k miles and causes issues exactly as you described.

 

[antonmnster]

Not to veer off=topic, but any car can be made to be expensive under the right circumstances. If your mechanic is thinking about boats when you walk in the door, maybe you have the wrong mechanic.

I'm tired of the lazy thinking that is so prevalent on this board when people think about euro cars. I spend 1/3 as much to keep my BMW going as my co-workers do to keep their Rangers and Blazers on the road.

Anyhoo, have her wiggle the gear shift while it's acting up. Couldn't be a simpler diagnostic. IIRC, the neutral safety swtich is kind of exposed and is sensitive to spilled drinks.

 

[tdpark]

Have them check the fuel pump relay; i had volvo of a much older vintage that had the same problem or rather same symptoms. It turned out to be the fuel relay and later there was a fuel sending unit or somesuchs that was frying the fuel relay.

It sounds like the fuel relay either has a short or is getting really hot and then shuts down or rather when you turn it off, it needs to cool down. If they open up the relay has scorch marks or smells burned-that is what it is.

 

[Smoky14]

I don't understand why people can't trouble shoot anymore. A problem which can be duplicated is a real mechanics dream. The malfunction that can't be duplicated is what gives real head aches.
All the parts that were thrown at this car was done by "parts changers" NOT mechanics.
About 2cents worth.

 

[Trav]

I'm no Volvo guru but as others have mentioned the first thing i would have tested is the neutral safety switch.
Diagnosing this is no different on any make.

Changing this if defective is easy enough and cost $100-200 new.

Edit: Next time it does this move the gear selector through the range and try it in neutral.

 

[eljefino]

+3 on the neutral safety switch.

A temp sensor? Really? Some idiot followed the flow chart for "no start" not "no crank".

The immobilizer diagnostics were a great idea, I will assume it was an aftermarket POS and hopefully the dealer didn't charge labor for diagnosing it... they probably stuck it in in the first place.

Finally a coworker's wife has one of the newer ford volvos, I'm sure she thinks it's cute and safe. She had the same issue where she had to physcially jam the shifter higher than the click for park to get it to turn over.

 

[SuperFast]

Originally Posted By: John_Snyder
I promised to try to help a friend/coworker with a very irritating issue she's had with her 2002 Volvo S40 (automatic with only 150k km) over the past couple of years. She still likes the car - but even after spending quite a lot of money trying to fix this issue, it still remains. She's essentially at her wits end with it - but hates to part with it, as it works perfectly when it chooses to. All routine maintenance has been done as per Volvo's schedule, and the car looks great.

The problem is that it intermittently won't start. Put the key in, turn the ignition "ON", and everything lights up as normal. Turn it to "START" - and nothing happens. Not even a hint at cranking.

This only seems to occur after the car has had a short trip (typically shopping), and has only been off for 1/2 hour or less. When this happens, waiting another 1/2 hour to 1 hour seems to allow everything to return to normal. It hasn't ever failed first thing in the morning, or after work. Weather seems to have no impact. It can do this winter or summer. It doesn't do it every time either - so it's difficult to predict.

All servicing has been done by a local Volvo dealer - and there's quite a list. Specifically pertaining to this problem:

- Replaced starter - no change.
- Replaced antenna for immobilizer - no change.
- Replaced immobilizer module - no change.
- Bypassed immobilizer module entirely - no change.
- Replaced ignition switch - no change.
- Replaced engine temp sensor (apparently reading higher than usual at ambient) - still no change.

The battery was also changed a couple of years ago and tests fine.

At first, this only happened maybe every couple of months, but it has gradually gotten more frequent. Each time something was changed - she hoped it was fixed - but eventually was disappointed again.

If anybody has any good ideas to look for, it would be greatly appreciated! She's spent SOOO much money on it at this dealer she's reluctant to start over somewhere else - so I thought I'd try asking here first. It doesn't make much sense to me - but I'm not entirely familiar with how the powertrain controls operate and interact in Volvos to be able to properly diagnose. I'm just hoping that somebody on here somewhere has seen this before!

Thanks very much in advance,
John



ECU.

Your S40 is the "Mistubishi Volvo." Its probably very nice, and similar in diagnostic/repair to a Jaguar S-type, in terms of confusing EVERYONE except MASTER LEVEL II MECHANICS that have worked on it for a decade or more.

Just sayin. Nice car, but bring it to the mechanic and they start cursing...

And check that ECU, or Theft system.

 

[NYSteve]

Please go to the 30Forty50 board and post you original post. There are a lot of Canadian members.

Also, stop going to the dealer. She must have spent enough to by another S40 at this point. These are not the cars to be bringing to the dealer to throw parts at. Especially as quirky as the S40 can be. Not bad DIY but painful at a dealer. Yikes!

Try somewhere from here: VolvoSpeed Canada Shops

With the Neutral Safety Switch(PNP in volvo speak), there have been people who have "cleaned" them by rapidly and repeatedly moving the gear shift from Low to Park and back to Low.

One other common issue is the Central Electronics Module (CEM) going out a lot. It is $800 new and has a lot of circuits going though it. I'm not sure if starting issues would be involved but start with the Neutral Safety Switch.

But yes, these are not the cars to be bringing to the dealer to through parts on. Especially as quirky as the S40 can be. Not bad DIY but painful at a dealer.

________________________________
2000 S40 with 135k miles

 

[John_Snyder]

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I'm definitely going to try that Volvo forum to see if it goes anywhere.

I figured that with the sheer number of people on here that somebody could at least steer me to a suitable forum if the answer wasn't known - and my hunch worked. Now to sign up over there...

As for the neutral safety switch - each time it does this she tries moving the shifter through the gears, including N to try to start it - but it makes no apparent difference. I think I recommended that to her the first time it did it a couple of years ago.

Depending on the outcome at the Volvo forum, I'm also going to try to find her a better shop local for her. I'll check out the above link and see where I get. We work together, but live rather far apart - so my local sources here aren't very convenient unfortunately.

Thanks again everyone for the input! If/when I get this resolved, I'll post the outcome on here for future reference.

John