2004 Honda Accord maintenance

[onion]

With the sudden and unexpected demise of my tired old 1994 Chevy Corsica, I've been in the market for a good used vehicle for a few days. After some shopping around, I've purchased a 2004 Honda Accord. Actually, this will be the wife's car- I'll inherit her trusty 2001 Chevy Lumina.

I'm impressed with the car so far. It has the 2.4L 4 cylinder, but is A LOT faster than our V6 Lumina. A little faster than the V6 Corsica. It's the EX model... lots of fancy gadgets to break IMO, but the wife likes it. Has 85,000 miles. Normally I'm FAR too cheap to purchase a vehicle like this, but I got a screamin' deal. Long story... involves a salvage title. Not for the faint of heart... but for about 60% of KBB value (less $$ than a comparable GM with a clear title), I'm willing to give it a try.

So my question is about maintenance. I've never owned an import before, and have rarely worked on them. I'm a diesel mechanic by day, and a mechanical engineering student by night... so I'm not afraid to work on this thing- but I'm pretty clueless when it comes to imports. So bear with me.

I know from having spend way too much time on the BITOG site that I need to run Honda-specific ATF and p/s fluid in the car.

I know that I can no longer just dump 15W40 into the engine like I've done for so many years with my domestic vehicles. The oil cap says 5w20. Pretty thin by my standards, but I know lots of people use it with good results.

How important is it that I run 5w20? Will 5w30 work just as well, or had I better stick with what Honda recommends in this case?

What about oil change intervals? I've been changing the Lumina's conventional 15W40 at 5000 (mostly highway) miles with good results... and I changed the Corsica's oil at 3000 (mostly city) miles. I've seen people on BITOG talk about some ridiculously long OCI's with Hondas... what is the standard? I'll look all this up in the owner's manual eventually, but it's in the car- and I won't have the car until Tuesday.

I seem to recall that the transmissions on these vehicles have a rather small fluid capacity, and that SOME Hondas do not have a serviceable filter. Although I've heard elsewhere that Accords DO have a serviceable filter. Can anybody correct me where I'm wrong here? How does one change the filter (if it exists)? What's the usual interval? Is Honda ATF strictly necessary... or will some aftermarket brands work?

Other questions:

Timing belt?

Coolant flush?

Brake fluid specs?

Thanks for any and all advice. I think this will be a good vehicle, but there's gonna be a steep learning curve.

 

[Quest]

Hey Dude!

Excellent choice on finding a decent used Accord 4cyl. This baby will keep you smiling so long as it's not a lemon.

brake fluid spec: Dot 3 or DOT4.

coolant flush: should be the long life Honda coolant that is good for the original 120,000kms or so. I would flush it and refill with HOnda coolant if I were you.

T-belt? Canada spec'ed for 150,000kms change interval so in your case, I suspect that it's coming close to getting one. Check your owner's manual to confirm the T-belt change interval and replace it with OEM Honda water pump, idler tensioner pulley (bearings) and Gates belts (I bought mine for dad's 7 gen civic from rockauto). Replace/service all the serpentine belts while you have everything off the car.

Don't hesitate to get the Helm manual for your car: it worths gold (IMHO) and saves the day when you need them.

Other than that, enjoy!

Q.

 

[Johnny]

Congrats on the new/used Honda, that 2.4L is a bullet proof engine.

I've been running PP 5W-20 in both of mine doing between 5K-7.5K drains using the Honda oil filters. No leaks and no consumption at all.

There are better ATF's out there than the Honda Z1, like the new DW1 they have just introduced, or Amsoil, Red Line D4, etc. I change my trannies every 30K.

Not sure about the Accord, but my 2.4L have a timing chain, not a belt. Change the serpentine belt at 100K.

Do a break fluid flush every two years with DOT4 fluid.

Enjoy the car.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Congrats on the new car.

Not sure about the brake fluid specs and all that but my girlfriend has an '03 Accord EX Coupe with the same 2.4 liter engine and it has a timing chain, not a timing belt. Honda does not even specify any intervals in the manual for replacing the timing chain.

Hers has been a very good car, I just did front and rear pads and rotors on it, and I keep the oil changed in it regularly. I do it about once every 6 months, she doesn't drive a lot of miles.

The only problems it has had in the last couple of years was the radio display went bad, the lights burned out on it. Honda fixed that for free under a recall. You might want to call the Honda dealer and have them check the VIN to see if your car is in the recall for the radio display. They had to replace a circuit board in the radio module to fix it. The recall states the car must have less than 105,000 miles on it to be covered.

She had to have the driver's window regulator replaced, that happened before I met my gf and she paid over $400.00 to have it fixed at the Honda dealer. I replaced the driver's power window switch, it is the master switch, about a year ago. It sees a lot of use because of all the toll booths around Orlando. I had to reprogram both ignition keys for the keyless entry because the keyless entry module is contained in the master switch housing. I found the directions for that online, it was super easy to do.

I also replaced the actuator in the driver's door lock. It had gone bad and the keyless entry and central locking system would not work. I just left the old factory actuator in place but unplugged it and installed an aftermarket door lock actuator on the door lock rod itself, connected the wires on it to the original door lock actuator wires and it has been working fine for nearly 2 years now. That didn't cost anything because I already had the actuator, from a truck I used to own a while back. I also replaced her downstream O2 sensor, it had a code and CEL for it when I met her.

Other than that, the car just gets normal maintenance, regular oil changes, etc. I have been using Napa 5W20 conventional and a Proselect filter on it, and we have one more oil change for her in the stash, then I will change it over to Quaker State 5W20 conventional and a Purolator Classic filter. I just switched my truck over to QS Advanced Durability and a Puro Classic and it is much better. I really like the QS oil a lot. I put a new serpentine belt on it for her not long ago. Carquest had the best price, it was only $14.95 and I think it is made by Gates.

My gf's car is a good reliable car, runs well, has good power and pickup and still gets about 28 MPG in combined highway and stop and go driving. It's comfortable and fun to drive too. It has about 108K on it now.

Honda's are great cars. If you take care of it it will run and last forever.

 

[mechtech2]

I'd use one of the excellent 5-20s.
They are well built -tough specs.
But sure, a 5-30 could be used.

 

[onion]

Whenever I acquire a 'new' used car that I mean to keep for some time, I immediately go over it with a fine-toothed comb. When we bought the Lumina 4-5 years ago, right away I changed all the fluids, replaced the intake gaskets, installed a trans. drain plug, trans cooler, inline trans filter, changed the plugs, checked the brakes, etc. etc. I want all maintenance to be as up-to-date as possible, and I want to address any known inherent problems.

I'm sure this list will be refined as I learn more about the car, look it over, read the owner's manual, etc. But for now, I'm thinking along these lines- in no particular order:

engine oil and filter
fuel filter
drain and fill coolant
trans fluid and filter
flush brake fluid, cycle ABS
check brakes
install trans cooler and inline filter
spark plugs
blow out radiator and a/c condenser fins
check tires
replace (broken) transmission mount
get car aligned
p/s fluid
engine air filter
cab air filter

I'll want to do some of this immediately; some of it can wait. But it will probably be at least two weeks before the maintenance is up-to-date enough and I trust the vehicle enough to hand the keys over to the wife.

About that salvage title- like I said, this is not for the faint of heart... prepare to cringe:

This car was hit in the driver's side front fender. The guy I bought it from has a used car lot that specializes in repairing and selling totaled vehicles- both wrecks and hail damage. He has his own frame-straightening machine (which he used on this car), does mechanical repairs in his shop, and has a local body shop do painting, hail damage repair, etc. I talked to him enough that I'm convinced that he knows what he's doing. And for $5000 less than KBB value, I'm willing to take a chance.

He replaced front driver's side fender and the bumper. The hood is original. The body shop did a great job- I wouldn't have known these panels had been replaced if he hadn't pointed it out. The paint matches well (for now) and the seams line up well. No visible problems with the frame or suspension. He didn't want to let me test drive it at first- said he needed to get it aligned first. I told him that I'd feel better about it if I could test drive it BEFORE it was aligned... to get an idea of how bad any damage/misalignment might be.

Initially I wasn't that serious about buying the car- but it actually drove straight and handled better than my Chevy's ever could. The tires are some brand I've never heard of (and can't remember at the moment), but nearly new. There is a slight engine vibration a highway speed, and a fairly noticeable vibration at idle from a broken transmission mount near where the car was hit. I talked him into a low-balled price, pointing out that I could pay cash and take it off his hands immediately- no need for him to put any more time/money into it.

So there are some (hopefully) minor issues to address before this becomes a daily driver... in addition to the laundry-list of maintenance.

 

[synthetic_crazy]

We are using Pennzoil Platinum 5w-20 in our Honda Element which shares the same engine as your Accord. It seems to agree with the engine as I have noticed no consumption. I did quite a bit of reading before selecting the "right" oil and found that other Element owners noted that the Platinum was the smoothest and quietest of the oils for the 2.4L.

 

[Tahoe4Life]

Originally Posted By: onion
Has 85,000 miles. Normally I'm FAR too cheap to purchase a vehicle like this, but I got a screamin' deal. Long story... involves a salvage title. Not for the faint of heart... but for about 60% of KBB value (less $$ than a comparable GM with a clear title), I'm willing to give it a try.


I guess you did get a screamin deal with a salvage title. Did you ever find out how it got the salvage title and what happened to it in the past? This car has a excellent chance of being a money pit. I think this was a big mistake getting this car.

I have nothing against you getting the Accord but the salvage title would make me run from this car with all the bad floods and storms this year.

But I do wish you good luck with your car.

I hope you had a good mechanic give this car a good going over from top to bottom. There is NO WAY I would let me wife or kids drive a car that had a salvage title.

 

[1999nick]

As I read all of these posts about this used Honda, I was wondering when someone was going to mention the salvage title. I, too, would like to know just why this vehicle has a salvage title. This usually means that it has met with some type of catastrophe in the past that made it almost valueless, and someone has made extensive repairs.

 

[onion]

I realize my posts are long... ya'll probably missed it. Here's the abridged story:

Quote:
This car was hit in the driver's side front fender. The guy I bought it from has a used car lot that specializes in repairing and selling totaled vehicles- both wrecks and hail damage. He has his own frame-straightening machine (which he used on this car), does mechanical repairs in his shop, and has a local body shop do painting, hail damage repair, etc. I talked to him enough that I'm convinced that he knows what he's doing. And for $5000 less than KBB value, I'm willing to take a chance.

He replaced front driver's side fender and the bumper. The hood is original. The body shop did a great job- I wouldn't have known these panels had been replaced if he hadn't pointed it out. The paint matches well (for now) and the seams line up well. No visible problems with the frame or suspension. He didn't want to let me test drive it at first- said he needed to get it aligned first. I told him that I'd feel better about it if I could test drive it BEFORE it was aligned... to get an idea of how bad any damage/misalignment might be.


The car was hit in the front on the driver's side. The front fender and bumper had to be replaced, and the front section of the frame had to be straightened. I understand that lots of normal people would have real reservations about this vehicle... that's precisely why I was able to afford this car. For your average Honda buyer looking for a fairly late-model Accord, a salvage title would be unthinkable. But I'm not your average Honda buyer.

And not only do I 'know a good mechanic'... I AM a good mechanic. I talked to the guy who fixed this car. He showed me what he repaired, I had a look at his equipment... and I'm satisfied that he knows what he's doing. And I'm confident that I can repair pretty much any issue that might arise here.

But yeah, I know that this car isn't up to lots of peoples' standards. I'd fully expect your average Honda driver to turn up his nose at this ride, just like he's turn up his nose at the 10-year-old 225,000-mile Chevy Lumina that the wife drives right now.

 

[mechanicx]

I was wondering how many miles were on your '94 Corsica and what failed on it? As far as the Accord, it sounds like you have a handle on its maintenance plan. I'd be very weary about frame alignment but if you really checked it out then that's what matters.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Salvage title or not isn't importance if you think the current mechanical condition is in good shape and you're plan to keep the car until it go to [censored] yard, specially for the money you pay for the car that is way below book value.

I bought a 1984 Salvage title Accord log time ago, I drove that car for more than 10 years with virtually no problems. I was glad to pay so little for it and it served me well.

 

[Yazmeister]

If it's a auto trans, it is suggested to do a drain and fill at 60,000 miles for long term ownership. Trany flushes are supposely bad for the transmission.

Aftermarket brake rotors are said to on the thin side. Most suggested brake rotor are the Brembo Blanks due to them being near OEM rotor thickness spec.

Some owners have experienced highway speed vibration coming from the axle shafts.

Just a few things for 7th gen Accords.

Great car to drive. Have fun.

 

[JOD]

I just helped a friend out w/maintenance on an 03 CRV, same K24 engine. As I think someone mentioned, it's a chain, not a belt, so no worries there.

As far as the trans fluid, I'd use the new DW-1, a new synthetic version of Z-1. I heard just enough tales of problems to keep me away from any non-Honda fluid in the transmission.

Outside of the normal maintenance stuff, I'd suggest pulling the valve cover and doing a valve adjustment (yes, they're still doing this!). It's not due until 110K, but the CRV had 60K on it and it was pretty far out, particularly the exhaust valves. It's really simple to do, and it'll give you a look-see of what's going on under the valve cover just for good measure.

Unless it were flood damage and there were constant electrical gremlins as a result, I wouldn't worry that much about the salvage title. Repair to the subframe isn't the end of the world in my book.

 

[onion]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I was wondering how many miles were on your '94 Corsica and what failed on it? As far as the Accord, it sounds like you have a handle on its maintenance plan. I'd be very weary about frame alignment but if you really checked it out then that's what matters.


My tired old '94 Corsica suffered sudden transmission failure at 182,000 miles. And these were HARD miles... lots of short trips and stop & go driving. Long story, but I was driving through BFE Kentucky. One minute I was cruising along comfortably at 75mph... then quite suddenly the transmission was in neutral and the engine was hitting the rev limiter. The car never pulled itself again. Can't say exactly why as I didn't tear it down... I'll probably never know EXACTLY what the failure was. But what I do know is that the pump isn't pumping. You can check the ATF level with the engine running or shut off- no difference. Right now it's sitting at a friend's house... he's going to sell it for whatever he can get out of it, and we'll split the proceeds, meager as they may be.

This car was old, ugly, and worn out- but it was religiously maintained. The engine is still in perfect running condition. Of course, I could have said exactly the same about the transmission the instant before it failed. It wasn't worth putting a transmission in- the body was falling apart, rain leaked in through the firewall, it needed struts and a fair amount of suspension work. It had definitely reached the end of its useful life.


Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Salvage title or not isn't importance if you think the current mechanical condition is in good shape and you're plan to keep the car until it go to [censored] yard, specially for the money you pay for the car that is way below book value.

I bought a 1984 Salvage title Accord log time ago, I drove that car for more than 10 years with virtually no problems. I was glad to pay so little for it and it served me well.


Yes, my opinion on the matter is similar. My inlaws have purchased two vehicles with salvage titles over the years (a '96 Dodge Ram 1500 and a 2002ish Chevy Avalanche). They've had excellent luck with both vehicles, and they are NOT mechanics by any stretch. As long as the vehicle has been repaired properly, then I don't really see a problem with it. Obviously your local garage repairs will not be on par with work done at a state-of-the-art Honda factory. But they can be good enough... and 'good enough' is exactly what ANYBODY is looking for when they're buying a used car.

Obviously resale value will suffer. But that's really a non-issue for me, as a buy vehicles well-used and drive then 'til the BITTER END- my Corsica being a case in point.

 

[onion]

Originally Posted By: JOD
I just helped a friend out w/maintenance on an 03 CRV, same K24 engine. As I think someone mentioned, it's a chain, not a belt, so no worries there.

As far as the trans fluid, I'd use the new DW-1, a new synthetic version of Z-1. I heard just enough tales of problems to keep me away from any non-Honda fluid in the transmission.


I'll definitely investigate this DW-1 fluid. I have the same impression of Honda ATF: I've heard enough horror stories that I'm leery of using anything else. Maybe my opinion will change as I become more familiar with the car, but my first transmission service will be with Honda ATF.

Do you know anything about the trans filter? Does this car have one?

Quote:
Outside of the normal maintenance stuff, I'd suggest pulling the valve cover and doing a valve adjustment (yes, they're still doing this!). It's not due until 110K, but the CRV had 60K on it and it was pretty far out, particularly the exhaust valves. It's really simple to do, and it'll give you a look-see of what's going on under the valve cover just for good measure.

I'll add this to my to-do list. Considering my schedule and my laundry-list of overdue maintenance, I probably won't get to it until close to 100k... but I'll probably get to it this winter.

I imagine that this procedure will be available somewhere on the internet, but I'll probably invest in a factory service manual soon enough. I've found that a factor manual is always VASTLY better than any Haynes, Chiltons or the like... and generally pays for itself with the first repair.

Unless it were flood damage and there were constant electrical gremlins as a result, I wouldn't worry that much about the salvage title. Repair to the subframe isn't the end of the world in my book.


Yes, flood damage is one type of salvage title that I wouldn't even consider. Nor would I consider a salvage title with no verifiable back-story. But this guy had his entire back lot full of wrecked and hail-damaged vehicles... mostly imports. He clearly had lots of experience with this kind of work, and he showed me exactly what he fixed. Interesting guy- from Lebanon. His first name is Jihad. No kiddin'.

Matter of fact, I initially showed up to try out an '06 Hyundai Elantra that had a salvage title due to hail damage. I wasn't impressed with that car (light, cheap, rattly), but I was impressed with his business model.

 

[VintageGuy]

Originally Posted By: onion
After some shopping around, I've purchased a 2004 Honda Accord...


You catch great fish man! I had my 2002 Accord and its lovely. You have to put up a maintenance sched for the honda accord parts if you dont want to end it into your garage or something. I've been with my buddies at some auto parts shop to help me with everything.


_______________________
VintageGuy

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: onion
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I was wondering how many miles were on your '94 Corsica and what failed on it? As far as the Accord, it sounds like you have a handle on its maintenance plan. I'd be very weary about frame alignment but if you really checked it out then that's what matters.


My tired old '94 Corsica suffered sudden transmission failure at 182,000 miles. And these were HARD miles... lots of short trips and stop & go driving. Long story, but I was driving through BFE Kentucky. One minute I was cruising along comfortably at 75mph... then quite suddenly the transmission was in neutral and the engine was hitting the rev limiter. The car never pulled itself again. Can't say exactly why as I didn't tear it down... I'll probably never know EXACTLY what the failure was. But what I do know is that the pump isn't pumping. You can check the ATF level with the engine running or shut off- no difference. Right now it's sitting at a friend's house... he's going to sell it for whatever he can get out of it, and we'll split the proceeds, meager as they may be.

This car was old, ugly, and worn out- but it was religiously maintained. The engine is still in perfect running condition. Of course, I could have said exactly the same about the transmission the instant before it failed. It wasn't worth putting a transmission in- the body was falling apart, rain leaked in through the firewall, it needed struts and a fair amount of suspension work. It had definitely reached the end of its useful life.



Obviously resale value will suffer. But that's really a non-issue for me, as a buy vehicles well-used and drive then 'til the BITTER END- my Corsica being a case in point.



I kind of figured this is what happened, a sudden and complete transmission failure. It's something that I always worry about happening on any high-milage car I own. Did it have the TH125? It seemed to have a tendency to suddenly go out sometime after 100k miles without any warnings. Of course other automatics can do that as well.

I think 4cylinder Accord ATs have an inline filter in a cooler line near the transmission. I'm not completely sure if your model has one, but i think it does.

 

[onion]

Quote:
I kind of figured this is what happened, a sudden and complete transmission failure. It's something that I always worry about happening on any high-milage car I own. Did it have the TH125? It seemed to have a tendency to suddenly go out sometime after 100k miles without any warnings. Of course other automatics can do that as well.


My '94 Corsica had the 4T60E transmission. Just for fun, I'll give you it's birth-to-death maintenance history... might be kinda instructive since we know exactly how many years/miles it lasted, and under what conditions.

To my knowledge, the transmission was never serviced until I moved in with my (now) wife in 2000. Shortly thereafter, at 80,000 miles, I did a drain-and-fill with Supertech ATF, and installed a transmission drain plug. At 100,000 miles (2002ish) I installed a home-made filter base, filtering the ATF through a PF53 oil filter... also installed a cheap transmission cooler. 80k: Supertech fluid and filter. 100k, Supertech fluid and filter. 120k, Supertech fluid and filter. 140k, Dexron VI fluid, new filter. 170k, Allison Transynd (synthetic- rated TES-295 and DexIIIG on the bottle), no new (internal)filter. The spin-on oil filters on my homemade filter base were replaced approximately every year/15k. I was pretty conservative with those since it was a homemade setup and I really didn't want to plug a cooler line.

Anyway, through 2006, we used this car for a combination of lots of stop & go city driving and short trips, as well occasional road trips every couple of months across the barren wastes of eastern CO, western KS. In 2006 (130k~ miles), we bought the '01 Lumina, and I inherited this car. Thereafter, it saw 90% stop and go driving and short trips... with long trips only on rare occasions.

And as you know, the transmission failed at 182k with zero warning. I was driving on I-75, going up and down big hills (they call 'em mountains) in Kentucky. Wasn't particularly hot that day- maybe 80 degrees. The car was running perfectly, no overheating. It DID have an overheating problem back in 2000-2001, but I took care of that long long ago.

So there's the whole story. I guess it goes to show that obsessive maintenance can make a vehicle last, but it's no guarantee against sudden, catastrophic failure.

Quote:
I think 4cylinder Accord ATs have an inline filter in a cooler line near the transmission. I'm not completely sure if your model has one, but i think it does.


Hmmm... yeah, I think I remember reading about that somewhere here on BITOG. An external ATF filter... that's impressive if true. I'll do some googling.

Speaking of ATF, I did some googling on the DW-1 fluid mentioned earlier in this thread. Info is a little sketchy, but DW-1 appears to be fully synthetic, and fully backwards-compatible with Z1 (it must be- because they're discontinuing Z1). I'll do a little more looking around to confirm this, but I'll likely do my first drain & fill with DW-1.

 

[JOD]

If you check out the link I posted in the DW-1 thread, it's definitely backwards-compatible. As far as the filter, what I figured out on the CRV is that very few had an external filter, most didn't. As it turned out, ones which are factory-rebuilt units have an external filter.

I never did figure out if there was an internal filter or not, but I didn't worry about it.