Why not PYB for my app

[mkosem]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Think of it this way. The over the road semi trucks are running over 1,000,000 miles on Conventional oils,their engines cost more than our whole vehicles. If syn oil made engines last longer would't all semi trucks run syn oil? Think about it. Syn oils do have advantages only if you need or use the advantages. Most peoples mindsets think of the marketing comparing 1970s conventional oils to syn oil . Syn oils are great for below freezing starts !


I'm not sure how sound this argument is. Sure, they often run a million miles or more between rebuilds. They usually have 40+ (sometimes 50+) quarts of oil and huge filters though. A volume of oil like that is less likely to see the temperature swings, and can sustain serviceability over a much longer time than the 3-6qt most passenger vehicles have these days. They're also generally not seeing as many cold starts as most daily driven passenger cars.

--Matt

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: mkosem
Originally Posted By: CT8
Think of it this way. The over the road semi trucks are running over 1,000,000 miles on Conventional oils,their engines cost more than our whole vehicles. If syn oil made engines last longer would't all semi trucks run syn oil? Think about it. Syn oils do have advantages only if you need or use the advantages. Most peoples mindsets think of the marketing comparing 1970s conventional oils to syn oil . Syn oils are great for below freezing starts !


I'm not sure how sound this argument is. Sure, they often run a million miles or more between rebuilds. They usually have 40+ (sometimes 50+) quarts of oil and huge filters though. A volume of oil like that is less likely to see the temperature swings, and can sustain serviceability over a much longer time than the 3-6qt most passenger vehicles have these days. They're also generally not seeing as many cold starts as most daily driven passenger cars.

--Matt


Yup. And member Doug Hillary's tear-downs on his Delvac 1 test rigs (500HP DD outback trains) showed basically zero wear and "new" spec bearings at 1.2 million Km's. Obviously an engine capable of significantly further than 1 million between rebuilds on that particular lubricant/filtration setup.

 

[Errtt]

Me - I'd run PYB. If going over 7.5k and/or for really cold temps, then I'd probably go synthetic. Maybe UOA's to see how one compares to the other.

 

[NormanBuntz]

If you have a stash of PYB, use it. My VQ35 (2007 M35) likes its stablemate, Quaker State. Or if you want full syn and like a bargain, you may consider loading up during Napa's October sale on Napa synthetic at $3.49 a quart.

 

[SavagePatch]

Wait for a sale and buy the cheapest Synthetic you can find. If it was me I'd preemptively buy the oil before my vehicle was due for an OC. If you're not that proactive an OCI can wait a few hundred miles until you find a price you think is reasonable and are comfortable with.

Btw... I purchased 6 boxes consisting of three 5qt jugs of Valvoline Synpower with Maxlife technology for $25/box from WalMart. You just have to keep your eyes open and not wait until the OC is due.

 

[SavagePatch]

Originally Posted By: SavagePatch
Wait for a sale and buy the cheapest Synthetic you can find. If it was me I'd preemptively buy the oil before my vehicle was due for an OC. If you're not that proactive an OCI can wait a few hundred miles until you find a price you think is reasonable and are comfortable with.

Btw... I purchased 6 boxes consisting of three 5qt jugs of Valvoline Synpower with Maxlife technology for $25/box from WalMart. You just have to keep your eyes open and not wait until the OC is due.


*the problem with buying in bulk is that you can't be spontaneous and buy the "newest shiny" product at the time.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: mkosem
Originally Posted By: CT8
Think of it this way. The over the road semi trucks are running over 1,000,000 miles on Conventional oils,their engines cost more than our whole vehicles. If syn oil made engines last longer would't all semi trucks run syn oil? Think about it. Syn oils do have advantages only if you need or use the advantages. Most peoples mindsets think of the marketing comparing 1970s conventional oils to syn oil . Syn oils are great for below freezing starts !


I'm not sure how sound this argument is. Sure, they often run a million miles or more between rebuilds. They usually have 40+ (sometimes 50+) quarts of oil and huge filters though. A volume of oil like that is less likely to see the temperature swings, and can sustain serviceability over a much longer time than the 3-6qt most passenger vehicles have these days. They're also generally not seeing as many cold starts as most daily driven passenger cars.

--Matt


Yup. And member Doug Hillary's tear-downs on his Delvac 1 test rigs (500HP DD outback trains) showed basically zero wear and "new" spec bearings at 1.2 million Km's. Obviously an engine capable of significantly further than 1 million between rebuilds on that particular lubricant/filtration setup.
Ihe point is that conventional oils will give you all the service life that can be expected.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: SavagePatch
Wait for a sale and buy the cheapest Synthetic you can find.....

Btw... I purchased 6 boxes consisting of three 5qt jugs of Valvoline Synpower with Maxlife technology for $25/box from WalMart. You just have to keep your eyes open and not wait until the OC is due.


Wow !!
I wish I could get 15qt of SynPower for $25-

But I agree, getting oil when the sales are on then storing it until you need it can save you a lot of money.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Yes, running M1 over 6k intervals is worth it over cheaper dino oil. Think of it this way, at 3k miles M1 will have a higher TBN than PYB. You want a higher TBN to neutralize acids and the cascading chemical effects better.
Full syns meeting higher specs typically have lower wear rates too.
You can get by with PYB ok, yet M1 is worth it.



Complete and utter nonsense.

Whether the tbn is 3 or 9 it still neutralizes acid. So that point is junk m
Wear rates and full syns again is complete nonsense and if you want to get serious there are many examples of conventionals actually contribute to less wear metals per mile vs synthetic in the same application(not that it means much without teardowns)
So both points incorrect and rubbish.
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Originally Posted By: zach1900
Lower wear rates with synthetic?
I've never seen any proof this is correct.


...1) Oil specs that only synthetics meet have more demanding wear rate specs.

...2) Kendall did a 100k mile Ford taxi cab teardown and showed diff wear, dino vs. synth.

...3) I read a tech paper just last week where the engineers claimed Grp3/4 oils had less timing chain wear than Grp2 oils.

...4) Page 12 of http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/07/f17/ft014_qu_2014_o.pdf

...5) Synthetics flow better cold, less wear that way.

...6) Deep into engineering, its due to higher EHL film thickness behavior, as in http://www.oetg.at/fileadmin/Dokumente/oetg/Proceedings/WTC_2001_files/html/M-22-P52-204-BERCEA.pdf and http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10402009908982255


Cold flow is irrelevant unless extreme winter temps are experienced. Split seconds faster doesn't mean squat in the real world.

Show me a single synthetic only spec that focuses on wear. More nonsense.

Kendall tests taxis with syn yet there are other taxi tests using conventional and as long as the interval wasn't grossly extended there was no difference in wear at tear down however there were deposits.

So 2 post of nonsense and tripe. Still pushing your nonsense beliefs which child might believe when grandpaw said it however science doesn't back up your assertions.

Timing chain wear? How does a timing chain wear out. The guides maybe but the chain. Please.

And you are comparing Kendall's test against wear in a diff.
What does that mean in relation to an engine. How are they even remotely similar.
Nonsense.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Clevy

Show me a single synthetic only spec that focuses on wear. More nonsense.


Porsche A40, any of the Mercedes specs....etc. There are quite a few with wear, deposit control, oxidation resistance....etc as parameters.

 

[jiffydarren]

People still use PYB? I thought this was 2015.

My shop doesn't even sell PYB. I bet you have a pretty good idea where I work, too.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Clevy

Show me a single synthetic only spec that focuses on wear. More nonsense.


Porsche A40, any of the Mercedes specs....etc. There are quite a few with wear, deposit control, oxidation resistance....etc as parameters.


Yep, I agree with the general thrust of what Clevy is saying, but as OverKill points out there are many oil specs that have wear limits including the Euro ACEA A3/B4, A3/B3 etc.

These aren't synthetic oil specs, but just oil specs. For some of the very tough ones, like MB 229.5, I have only seen full synthetics pass (that I know of). For ACEA A3/B4, most are full synthetics, but I have seen a few semi-synthetics pass this. For A3/B3 I have even seen a few mineral oils with this rating.

Probably more common in the Europe and Australian market than in North America.

The HDEO specs are quite tough too (eg ACEA E7) and include wear control, shear resistance, etc. I've seen many mineral oils pass these specs, but they are quite expensive relative to PCMO mineral oils that are just SN rated (buying at my local auto store).

Just saying....

 

[fdcg27]

Another way of looking at this would be to ask whether you're losing anything by staying with M1.
The cost difference per mile of use is vanishingly small.
M1 is known to keep engines clean.
This isn't merely my conjecture.
It's supported by teardowns conducted by members here, at least one of whom has posted in this thread.
A few bucks more every 6K for clean internals might well be worth it.
OTOH, a little varnish won't reduce the lifespan of your Nissan V-6.
Oil used won't be the limiting factor in the life of the vehicle.
Me?
On a newish vehicle, I'd spring for a synthetic.
Once the thing reaches beaterdom, as all vehicles must, you might then use something cheaper.