would that get rid of the fluid that cannot be taken out with the normal drain??
Why don't transmission pans have drain plugs?
- Thread starter satterfi
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No, but it'll get some out of the pan before you drop it on your head.
I've had good luck loosening all the bolts and then removing more toward one corner. Much of the fluid will spill out that corner into the drain pan. I just keep tipping & loosening until the thing is manageable. Besides, my driveway is old and the fresh lube keeps the metal shavings from rusting.
Seriously, I use large cardboard and rarely get anything on the pavement.
The biggest single reservoir of ATF is the torque converter. Almost none of them have drain plugs. All this pain is a good motivator for mondo external filtration.
David
I've had good luck loosening all the bolts and then removing more toward one corner. Much of the fluid will spill out that corner into the drain pan. I just keep tipping & loosening until the thing is manageable. Besides, my driveway is old and the fresh lube keeps the metal shavings from rusting.
The biggest single reservoir of ATF is the torque converter. Almost none of them have drain plugs. All this pain is a good motivator for mondo external filtration.
David
The filter is the most important thing to change. Every place I know that flushs the trans will change the filter, its a must. Flushing will not clean the filter and may even harm it. I suggest you follow this link and read it, down towards the bottom of the page. http://www.baldwinfilter.com/engineer/pdf/98-2.pdf
[ December 01, 2002, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: Mike ]
When I go to change the transmission fluid in my vehicle for the first time I take an awl and CAREFULLY punch a hole in the bottom of the pan and let the fluid drain out, hot. Then I remove the pan and if the hole I punched is correct I drill it out and install a drain plug from Auto Zone, about 8 bucks. Then I change the filter and reinstall. Now the next time I change fluid and trans, no problem.
What if I punch the hole in the wrong place? No problem, I can braze it shut or use my wire feed welder. I have never punched in the wrong place yet as I look for the lowest flat spot. When I do use the awl, I barely go through the metal. When the hole starts to appear and fluid draining, I ream it slightly and use a large dishpan for a container, go have a coffee and when I go back out, the work starts. Incidentally, I don't trust the washers on the add-on drain plugs, so I weld the nut in from the inside of the pan, and use the gasket and nut on the outside. This will make sense if you have an aftermarket drain plug to look at.
I also recommend that you go to Lowe's, Home Depot ect. and buy a package of latex gloves. Cost is apprx. $10 for 25-50 pair, depending which store. Painters wear these and are found in the Chemical section of the store. Also useful for changing oil, filling a diesel vehicle with fuel ect.
What if I punch the hole in the wrong place? No problem, I can braze it shut or use my wire feed welder. I have never punched in the wrong place yet as I look for the lowest flat spot. When I do use the awl, I barely go through the metal. When the hole starts to appear and fluid draining, I ream it slightly and use a large dishpan for a container, go have a coffee and when I go back out, the work starts. Incidentally, I don't trust the washers on the add-on drain plugs, so I weld the nut in from the inside of the pan, and use the gasket and nut on the outside. This will make sense if you have an aftermarket drain plug to look at.
I also recommend that you go to Lowe's, Home Depot ect. and buy a package of latex gloves. Cost is apprx. $10 for 25-50 pair, depending which store. Painters wear these and are found in the Chemical section of the store. Also useful for changing oil, filling a diesel vehicle with fuel ect.
I have serviced thosands of transmissions over the years, and in all ways. Pan-drop and filter-change, drain and fill(or suck and fill), or full flush.
Personally, I feel the flush does the best job.
The reason that most of the American vehicles don't have tranny drain-plugs(until recently)is because they want you to change the disposable, paper-element filter inside.
Most import cars don't use the traditional paper media filter, but more of a permanent metal screen, or 'strainer'. They don't feel that there is ever a need to remove the pan unless the vehicle is damaged, so they install drain plugs.
The other supposed reason is because a 100% fluid change can 'shock' the tranny, maybe causing poor performance and failure. By exchanging only a portion of the fluid, it is being 'freshened up', but can still blend with the fluid that the trans is 'used to'. I don't personally agree with that, though.
I have never had a trans fail from a fluid exchange that did not already have some pre-existing problem.
My rule of thumb is: If the trans is mechanically healthy, new fluid won't hurt it.If the trans is mechanically damaged or worn, new fluid won't help it.
We always flush at least 16 quarts of fluid in a any trans flush, more if needed. This tends to get the most old fluid out.
On my personal vehicles, I have installed external in-line magnetized, disposable trans-filters. I simply change these at every flush, and there is no need to remove the pan.
I have over 320,000 mile on a 77 Lincoln, and have been using the external filter and flush for over 200,000 of the miles with no problems. The fluid and filter are changed avery 24,000 miles.
BTW, once you get the 'knack',taking of a tranny pan without spilling any fluid is pretty easy. Like anything, it just takes practice.
Good luck!
Personally, I feel the flush does the best job.
The reason that most of the American vehicles don't have tranny drain-plugs(until recently)is because they want you to change the disposable, paper-element filter inside.
Most import cars don't use the traditional paper media filter, but more of a permanent metal screen, or 'strainer'. They don't feel that there is ever a need to remove the pan unless the vehicle is damaged, so they install drain plugs.
The other supposed reason is because a 100% fluid change can 'shock' the tranny, maybe causing poor performance and failure. By exchanging only a portion of the fluid, it is being 'freshened up', but can still blend with the fluid that the trans is 'used to'. I don't personally agree with that, though.
I have never had a trans fail from a fluid exchange that did not already have some pre-existing problem.
My rule of thumb is: If the trans is mechanically healthy, new fluid won't hurt it.If the trans is mechanically damaged or worn, new fluid won't help it.
We always flush at least 16 quarts of fluid in a any trans flush, more if needed. This tends to get the most old fluid out.
On my personal vehicles, I have installed external in-line magnetized, disposable trans-filters. I simply change these at every flush, and there is no need to remove the pan.
I have over 320,000 mile on a 77 Lincoln, and have been using the external filter and flush for over 200,000 of the miles with no problems. The fluid and filter are changed avery 24,000 miles.
BTW, once you get the 'knack',taking of a tranny pan without spilling any fluid is pretty easy. Like anything, it just takes practice.
Good luck!
Vetteman, good suggestion. Absolutely on the welding part. A bad day is when a $5 part comes loose and causes $1K damage.
Only thing I'd add is about hole placement. Consider where the oil is going to shoot when the plug is removed. Or so I've heard.
David
[ December 01, 2002, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: OneQuartLow ]
Only thing I'd add is about hole placement. Consider where the oil is going to shoot when the plug is removed. Or so I've heard.
David
[ December 01, 2002, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: OneQuartLow ]
On 2 of my trucks they have a 20 quart system. I don't have the advantage of a hoist or car racks so balancing 8-10 quarts in a pan laying on the ground would require some skill that I haven't mastered yet, therefore my drain plugs.
You are correct the Magnefine in-line filters are great. I opted for a FF in-line on the return also. No flow problems and meets Ford flow specs. I still change the internal filter every 30K, cheap and I am dirty and oily anyhow and the internal filter comes with a new pan gasket.
When you do a machine flush, remove the in-line magnetic filter if you have one and put in a cheater hose with 2 worm clamps. The filter is directional and you don't want to back flush the residue from the filter throughout the system. I am sure you do this, but this is for someone who has the filter and takes it in for a machine flush.
[ December 02, 2002, 12:22 AM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
North American car manufacturers have always been slow to come around to incorporating common-sense ideas into their vehicles. If you have a Volvo, for example, you will have a plug on the diff & tranny. (manual or automatic)
Here is another question: Why can you still kill a battery in a North American vehicle by leaving the headlights on? The Europeans figured this one out decades ago!
Here is another question: Why can you still kill a battery in a North American vehicle by leaving the headlights on? The Europeans figured this one out decades ago!
Vetteman, I am embarrassed to admit that I have NOT removed the Magna-fine filters when flushing the system. Sure sounds like an obvious good idea though. When you say 'back-flush', what exactly do you mean? The tranny flush machines push the fluid through in the normal direction of flow. there are no back-flush machines that I am aware of.
You are correct on the flushing direction. But removal of the filter first is a must to prevent reverse direction on shut down, ect. I have seen this problem with filters, and that is where the cheater line works with no problems. Do it once and have a problem or restriction, and you will never forget to remove one and put a cheater hose. Remember some people forget the 30K and go 40-60K also.
What tranny does your explorer have.
I may be able to give you a Ford part number for an identical pan with a drain plug.
I replace my E40D pan on my Powerstroke with the newer 4R100 pan that has the drain plug.
On my Lincoln and Crown Vic I have replaced the 4R70W pan with an alternative pan from Ford that has the drain plug (same pan with a plug).
Makes changing the fluid a snap.
As mentioned above... most Fords have drain plugs in the converter.
Drain the pan, drain the converter, blow out the oil cooler lines and fill'er up. I do it once a year on all my vehicles.
I may be able to give you a Ford part number for an identical pan with a drain plug.
I replace my E40D pan on my Powerstroke with the newer 4R100 pan that has the drain plug.
On my Lincoln and Crown Vic I have replaced the 4R70W pan with an alternative pan from Ford that has the drain plug (same pan with a plug).
Makes changing the fluid a snap.
As mentioned above... most Fords have drain plugs in the converter.
Drain the pan, drain the converter, blow out the oil cooler lines and fill'er up. I do it once a year on all my vehicles.
Does anyone have opinions on the B&M remote tranny filters? I'm wondering if they restrict the fluid flow enough to cause a problem?
Probably depends on the transmission. I was told by a performance tranny builder not to use one on mine (4L60-E) or others. He said the pump wasn't designed to handle the restriction and knew of many customers with transmission failures due to the auxillary filter. I don't know how much pressure actually goes through the filter but I do know my transmission operates with between 160-220 psi at the pressure test port.
I use a Perma-Cool external filter (same kind as the B&M) on my '02 Explorer with a 5R55W transmsission (4.0 V6 engine) and it works good so far (3500 miles). I use a K&N HP Oil filter to make sure it can flow well. The bypass valve will kick in if there's around 10psi of differential pressure so restriction shouldn't be a problem. The Ford service manual recommends adding a magnafine style filter inline with standard tranny service and these must create some backpressure also I would think.
[ December 05, 2002, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: rgiles ]
what about my honda which supposedly has some kind of a screen? how would i get at it and should i try?
if u have a 4th gen accord (90-93) or a 5th gen i think (94-96) then u have no filter but a screen. the only way to get to this is by taking down the tranny and getting to it, though its alot of work you should just change the fluid. the only time u have to really clean that filter out is when ur car stutters and jitters on take off. thats a sign of the screen being blocked. you can go in there and check but i say its over kill. standard there is no replacement for the filter at honda, basically drain and fill...or use t tec and drain through the oil cooler and fill through the cooler.
If it's an Accord, you can't unless you disassemble the transmission. Honda currently recommends on the 2003 Accords to drain, refill, and drive 15-20 miles three times for an ATF exchange. Honda ATF -definitely- recommended.
I replaced the factory tranny pan on my 98 chevy ext-cab Z71 with one from a later model chevy truck that has the drain plug and it makes fluid and filter changes much easier. I also drain and refill my tranny fluid about every other oil change so I always have fresh fluid in it. This may be overkill, but the 4L60E trannys are not known for being very durable and at least mine won't die from bad fluid.
According to the owner's manual, you only have to change fluid and filter every 50,000 miles for severe service or 100,000 miles for normal so I don't worry too much about my filter even though I have changed the filter two times.
According to the owner's manual, you only have to change fluid and filter every 50,000 miles for severe service or 100,000 miles for normal so I don't worry too much about my filter even though I have changed the filter two times.
My 2 cents...B&M sells a drain plug kit for about $10.00 or so. Got mine through Summit Racing. VERY easy 2 install. Makes draining ATF fluid easy, very easy. Less mess when dropping pan 4 a filter changes also.
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