Why don't the BIG guys make the BEST oil ever?

[Bumpside 427]

That's my question here.
Seems that the "overpriced" "boutique" oil makers that have very devoted followers could be wiped out from a comparable oil made more cheaply.
I'm talking the big-bux stuff like Redline, RP, Motul.
Since we know there's a market for them, why do the big guys shoot for beating (or meeting) M1 and not the best [censored] oil ever?
GC and PZU seems close (or to some, are IT) but why wouldn't the big guys make a hands-down, bestest oil ever?

 

[shrooms]

If the bestest oil were invented, BITOG forum would close shop.

Nothing to talk about......oil at least.

 

[simple_gifts]

Who said they don't. M1 EP seems like a good one.

 

[Bumpside 427]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Who said they don't. M1 EP seems like a good one.


Based on the post above you, no, they don't
Anything as pounded on as M1 isn't going to qualify.

As for the other reply, bunk!
You've seen how many threads that PZU and GC keep creating.
If the bestest oil ever came out at $7.00 a Qt, there'd be posts for years...

 

[lewdwig]

Bruce Blend. $$$$.

 

[LS2JSTS]

It still wouldn't matter....The market would still contain an element that needs the boutique brand. And I am in no way denigrating that segment of the market. Just pointing out human nature. No matter what the facts were sorrounding relative "quality". The boutique brands would still enjoy a willing and anxious market for their products.

 

[crw]

Well, if you understood marketing, you'd have your answer.

The average guy on the street doesn't even know the names of these boutique oils or why someone would want them. To them, there is the yellow bottle and the green bottle.

So the market for boutique oils is... the market. For the 1% out there that really are interested in this stuff, they can weigh the options and choose the oil they want. They might go with RP, or they might decide that M1 meets their needs. These are the same guys that will study oil specifications and get UOAs, and even post them on websites.

But the idea that you're going to make a marketing campaign that says, "Hey, we're better than Motul!!" ... That ain't happenin' because 99 out of 100 people who see your expensive ad don't know or care what you're talking about.

By the way, I just picked 1% out of the air. In reality I think it's much lower than that.

 

[BeanCounter]

Same concept as what Marc Graham of Jiffy Lube/Penn.-QSt. made fairly clear a number of years back. If they get one more car to get an oil change per day at each shop, that's some $30M+ more that goes to the bottom line. If these commercial brands went from mainly short OCI oils to extended OCI oils, they'd be in the red by the end of the year and in serious trouble, I suspect.

 

[RedByrd]

To me it's simple. You cannot have a universal "best" oil because you do not have a universal car. As long there are different car makes and models, and vehicles are used for different tasks, there can be no "best" oil. There is only the "best" oil for each application that WILL differ.

Plus, there's the factor that competition keeps prices lower. A universal best oil could demand whatever price the company wanted, and everyone would pay. In short, PP keeps the price of M1 competitive and vice versa.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: PurplePride
Seems that the "overpriced" "boutique" oil makers that have very devoted followers could be wiped out from a comparable oil made more cheaply.

Yes, they could. A few points in response:

First, no one really has the ability to know for sure what oil is better than another. Most of what passes for evidence on the Internet, including on BITOG, would be laughed at by any serious scientist or engineer.

Thus, everything depends on marketing and our own biases. Both of those can easily work out in favor of the little guys.

The big companies have a lot more to lose by making grand claims and getting into "us vs. them" arguments. That's why little companies like Amsoil and Red Line can bash on them all day and they won't retaliate.

Moreover, a lot of people are strongly biased against products from big companies. They always assume that a big company is looking to milk them dry, whereas a small company will look after them. It's not hard for the Amsoils and Red Lines of the world to play on that.

Lastly, why would the big players bother to crush the little guys anyway? Amsoil and Red Line aren't even a thorn in Exxon Mobil's side. They may have a big share of the aftermarket but the big companies make a TON more money in other sectors. The oils you see on the shelf are basically just advertising. The big guys are better off appearing respectable and not treating every little upstart company as a threat.

Besides, if there were no small players, the FTC would be asking some tough questions...


Originally Posted By: PurplePride
why wouldn't the big guys make a hands-down, bestest oil ever?

Well, how do you know they don't? Honestly, think about it.

 

[Slick17601]

Because the population that would purchase is so miniscule it would not matter. 99.999% of the population could care less what oil as long as their car runs.

 

[Steve S]

Not every consumer wants to pay $10 per qt for oil if $3 per qt oil will let the car outlast their ownership of it. The big guys oil is really good .

 

[Steve S]

Something to really think about is where do Amsoil,Redline etc. get their basestocks and additive packages from?

 

[Bumpside 427]

Originally Posted By: Slick17601
Because the population that would purchase is so miniscule it would not matter. 99.999% of the population could care less what oil as long as their car runs.


I don't believe that.
Otherwise, why would all the big names have been putting out (and in some cases more than one) new, high-end oils?
Seems more expensive to keep putting out a new bottle and formula and name than to make a really great oil and drive it home to consumers.
Why is Pennzoil using Ferrari?
That's a contradiction. If those of us that care are less than 0.1%, then 0.1% of 0.1% drive Ferraris and care.

 

[Bumpside 427]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Not every consumer wants to pay $10 per qt for oil if $3 per qt oil will let the car outlast their ownership of it. The big guys oil is really good .


Looking at PepBoys or AutoZone lately, I see a pretty good percentage of expensive oils vs the 99¢ a qt stuff.
I think more people care than is given credit for here.
Plus, if they drove home long OCIs for out of warranty changes, people would flock to saving money, time and being "green" - whether or not it is actually a "green" practice...

 

[Bumpside 427]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Something to really think about is where do Amsoil,Redline etc. get their basestocks and additive packages from?


I don't know - you?
Since it's all top-secret stuff, I assumed we didn't know.

 

[CATERHAM]

The big guy's and Lubrizol.

 

[qship1996]

i dont know, but Redline oil looks like more of a bargain every day at $8.20 per quart delivered when you compare it to all the recent prices of group 3 products at the local autozone/advance/pepboys, have you checked out how much a quart of Ultra/GC/M1 ext performance oils are??? creeping up to Redline/amsoil/Motul pricing rather quickly....unless you find a "sale" Regular penzoil yellow bottle quart was priced at $7.39 at the local supermarket!!!!

 

[HTSS_TR]

The vast majority of owners have their oil changes at dealers and/or quick lubes with conventional bulk oil. Very small minority willing to pay for synthetic oil at $5-7qt and even much smaller percentage are willing to pay higher price for top of the line oils such as Redline, Amsoil. That why all big names are spending big money in R&D for middle of the road synthetic, there is no volume for high end synthetic.

 

[endeavor to persevere]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Something to really think about is where do Amsoil,Redline etc. get their basestocks and additive packages from?


Amsoils major supplier of PAO base stock is Exxon/Mobil, the largest supplier of synthetic basestocks in the world. They purchase some Group III base stocks from Shell, Petro Canada, and others. About 90% of their additive packages come from Lubrizoil.