Unique F-14 Test

[billt460]

I thought this was pretty interesting. I read an article a while back on the F-14, where they said when it was in it's initial development and testing stages, the test pilots actually attempted to fly it with one wing forward, and the other swept back.

I came across this photo actually showing it. It's amazing that it could still be controlled in this configuration. But as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[MacManus99]

It's almost as if you can visibly see the amount of rudder needed to compensate in order to keep her flying straight.

Great photo.

Out of curiosity, are there any clear visible signs that differentiate the F-14A and B variants?

 

[billt460]

It's almost as if you can visibly see the amount of rudder needed to compensate in order to keep her flying straight.

Great photo.

Out of curiosity, are there any clear visible signs that differentiate the F-14A and B variants?

Astro 14 is the man to ask. He knows that aircraft inside and out.

 

[supton]

I’m not surprised. Anything and everything can fail. What is the pilot to be trained to do if a damaged plane loses control over this or that flight surface? I’m not sure how good the simulators were back then, but I’m guessing the best way to test is to try.

 

[y_p_w]

It's almost as if you can visibly see the amount of rudder needed to compensate in order to keep her flying straight.

That “tennis court” there is apparently a huge lifting body. There’s a photo out there of one that lost half a wing and still could make it to an airfield to land. The other guys had to punch out though.

 

[JustN89]

That “tennis court” there is apparently a huge lifting body. There’s a photo out there of one that lost half a wing and still could make it to an airfield to land. The other guys had to punch out though.

Reminds me of the F-15 that landed with one wing.

 

[Astro14]

Grumman did the test in the very early days of the airplane at the Navy’s insistence. The brass wanted to know if the airplane could be controlled with full wing asymmetry. Grumman insisted that their interlocks (synchronizer shaft, dual drive motors, etc.) would prevent an airplane with wing asymmetry, but the brass wanted to know.

Yes, it’s controllable, though at a bit higher speed.

The big control input is the horizontal stabilizer deflection. Lateral stick to control the differential lift as displayed in the horizontal stab position.

When the airplane got older, we had a few where the wing sweep system got stuck (usually back at 68 degrees, full aft) but the synchronization system kept them symmetrical.

The F-14B differed from the A in engines, and removal of the glove vanes. so, if you see an airplane with glove vanes extended, it’s an A.

The nozzles of the GE F-110 are noticeably different from those of the TF-30, that’s the quickest way to tell A from B.

The D had the same engines, but dual chin pods, with an IRST and TCS. The A and B had a single chin pod with just TCS.

So, if you see the F-110 nozzles, it’s a B or D, and you need a peek under the nose to see the number of chin pods.

 

[MacManus99]

Thanks @Astro14. I appreciate the knowledge shared. Found a little visual aid for those curious.

 

[spasm3]

Thanks @Astro14. I appreciate the knowledge shared. Found a little visual aid for those curious.View attachment 162015

That B nozzle just looks gigantic!

 

[billt460]

How often did they have to respray the white ceramic coating on the inside of the nozzles? Did it eventually burn off from afterburner use?

 

[Astro14]

How often did they have to respray the white ceramic coating on the inside of the nozzles? Did it eventually burn off from afterburner use?

They never touched the white ceramic AB liner while the engine was installed in the airplane. I imagine that when the engines were overhauled, they got new liners. New liners were a very pretty White. That didn’t last very long.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

Reminds me of the F-15 that landed with one wing.

Amazing plane, pilots and Israel to put it back into service.

Touched down at 260 knots and broke Arrester cable IIRC.

Aircraft was eventually put back into service and it shot any enemy MIG down.

Not to go off topic too much, Israel put back into service another damaged F15 that Boeing never thought was possible.

 

[y_p_w]

Amazing plane, pilots and Israel to put it back into service.

Touched down at 260 knots and broke Arrester cable IIRC.

Aircraft was eventually put back into service and it shot any enemy MIG down.

Not to go off topic too much, Israel put back into service another damaged F15 that Boeing never thought was possible.

It's probably not a matter of what is or isn't possible. Anything is possible with enough work and materials. More like they don't think it's economically a good idea.

I can assure you that the Iranians will do almost anything to trying and keep their fleet of F-14s flying. But I'm thinking the one thing they can't do is repair/replace a damaged titanium box.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

It's probably not a matter of what is or isn't possible. Anything is possible with enough work and materials. More like they don't think it's economically a good idea.

I can assure you that the Iranians will do almost anything to trying and keep their fleet of F-14s flying. But I'm thinking the one thing they can't do is repair/replace a damaged titanium box.

Read about Depot 22 in Israel.

 

[Random_Kiwi]

Grumman did the test in the very early days of the airplane at the Navy’s insistence. The brass wanted to know if the airplane could be controlled with full wing asymmetry. Grumman insisted that their interlocks (synchronizer shaft, dual drive motors, etc.) would prevent an airplane with wing asymmetry, but the brass wanted to know.

Yes, it’s controllable, though at a bit higher speed.

The big control input is the horizontal stabilizer deflection. Lateral stick to control the differential lift as displayed in the horizontal stab position.

When the airplane got older, we had a few where the wing sweep system got stuck (usually back at 68 degrees, full aft) but the synchronization system kept them symmetrical.

The F-14B differed from the A in engines, and removal of the glove vanes. so, if you see an airplane with glove vanes extended, it’s an A.

The nozzles of the GE F-110 are noticeably different from those of the TF-30, that’s the quickest way to tell A from B.

The D had the same engines, but dual chin pods, with an IRST and TCS. The A and B had a single chin pod with just TCS.

So, if you see the F-110 nozzles, it’s a B or D, and you need a peek under the nose to see the number of chin pods.

More airflow over the control surfaces in order to make them more effective so that unequal lift can be counteracted?

 

[Astro14]

More airflow over the control surfaces in order to make them more effective so that unequal lift can be counteracted?

Yes. Exactly.

The unequal lift creates a roll.

Counteract the roll with lateral stick, which moves the horizontal tails differential to each other.

Faster speed gives those tails more authority.

A bit of sideslip into the forward wing will reduce the roll a bit by increasing lift on the swept wing, but I don’t see much rudder displacement in the photo shown.

I’m certain the test pilots had several test points to fly, including lots of side slip and zero side slip.

 

[wpod]

I have seen over the decades some machine designs that are about as good as they can be.

 

[Astro14]

It's probably not a matter of what is or isn't possible. Anything is possible with enough work and materials. More like they don't think it's economically a good idea.

I can assure you that the Iranians will do almost anything to trying and keep their fleet of F-14s flying. But I'm thinking the one thing they can't do is repair/replace a damaged titanium box.

My understanding is that Grumman invented electron beam welding to fabricate that wing box out of titanium. I imagine Iran could duplicate that technology now, given enough desire.

But I don’t think they would need to…

We never had one break. Even when the airplane crashed, that wing box looked untouched. It was unbelievably strong.

 

[spasm3]

My understanding is that Grumman invented electron beam welding to fabricate that wing box out of titanium. I imagine Iran could duplicate that technology now, given enough desire.

But I don’t think they would need to…

We never had one break. Even when the airplane crashed, that wing box looked untouched. It was unbelievably strong.

It is also an interesting story , about how they got the titanium. I bet you already know that story Astro.

Is it accurate?

 

[y_p_w]

It is also an interesting story , about how they got the titanium. I bet you already know that story Astro.

Is it accurate?

I think the story you're thinking of was primarily about the A-12 and the SR-71, where the fuselage was primarily titanium.

These days there are a lot more sources for titanium. My eyeglasses are made of titanium.