Truck Crash Test

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: RN89
So I saw this same post on another forum and many were saying something along the lines of, "your truck isn't as tough as you thought it was.."

But, theoretically, wouldn't my full sized pickup "win" in a crash against a smaller vehicle? Doesn't the heavier vehicle have the advantage? Not to mention the sheer size of a full-size truck, higher front end, more space from point of impact and driver, among the many other advantages a truck has over a car.

I'm no crash test engineer, but these are just my thoughts and a few of the reasons I choose to drive a large truck.

Yeah, that's the problem with the crash regs as is. The bigger vehicle has to be proportionally tougher to pass the tests, making it more dangerous for smaller vehicles.
Don't get over confident though, I drove by a new F150 whose driver must've been texting or something as they drove head on into the front corner of a transport truck waiting to turn left... It was basically the real life version of this test, no news anywhere on it though so probably the driver is fine. Another foot over though...

 

[Ethan1]

Originally Posted By: RN89
But, theoretically, wouldn't my full sized pickup "win" in a crash against a smaller vehicle? Doesn't the heavier vehicle have the advantage?


That is 100% correct. In fact, the IIHS points this out when they publish their Top Safety Picks. They mention that different classes of vehicles are not comparable. A Top Safety Pick Plus subcompact is NOT safer than a run-of-the-mill SUV.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Ethan1
Originally Posted By: RN89
But, theoretically, wouldn't my full sized pickup "win" in a crash against a smaller vehicle? Doesn't the heavier vehicle have the advantage?


That is 100% correct. In fact, the IIHS points this out when they publish their Top Safety Picks. They mention that different classes of vehicles are not comparable. A Top Safety Pick Plus subcompact is NOT safer than a run-of-the-mill SUV.

Well the higher rated vehicle is safer hitting an immovable object. Or a car is less likely to end up side down than most trucks. In general though you're correct.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: RN89
So I saw this same post on another forum and many were saying something along the lines of, "your truck isn't as tough as you thought it was.."

But, theoretically, wouldn't my full sized pickup "win" in a crash against a smaller vehicle? Doesn't the heavier vehicle have the advantage? Not to mention the sheer size of a full-size truck, higher front end, more space from point of impact and driver, among the many other advantages a truck has over a car.

I'm no crash test engineer, but these are just my thoughts and a few of the reasons I choose to drive a large truck.

The answer is maybe.
I already mentioned how my friend obliterated F250 (and I am not exaggerating) with E46 330i when F250 ran red light. BMW of course needed bunch of fixing (radiator, hood etc, etc) but car was eventually fixed and sold. F250 was totaled.
So I think it depends on the type of crash: frontal direct, side impact, back collision.
In theory more weight and size etc. should be better. However, I am not so sure how would they perform in frontal collision with Mercedes S class, or BMW 7 series. The video point to the structural problems. Just because that truck will inflict damage to other car, that does not mean it will not sustain a lot of damage.

 

[Ethan1]

Are you saying that the tests are of limited value because they aren't vehicle-to-vehicle, or are you saying that a large vehicle only has an inherent advantage when it strikes another vehicle? I probably wouldn't disagree with either proposition.

I don't think that rollovers are statistically significant.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Ethan1
Are you saying that the tests are of limited value because they aren't vehicle-to-vehicle, or are you saying that a large vehicle only has an inherent advantage when it strikes another vehicle? I probably wouldn't disagree with either proposition.

I don't think that rollovers are statistically significant.

I think tests are limited, but very important. We saw RAM, I mean obviously there is structural issue there.
When it comes to rollovers, it depends. However, in CO, truck are first in the ditch during snow. Light rear end, drivers who think that they own the road, and.....

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
I remember when my friend T boned F-250 with BMW E46 330i. F250 went through red light. It was not funny, he destroyed that poor truck completely.
When someone tells me truck are tough I always remember that accident.
My dad has done heavy collision repair since 1987, so 29 years. BMWs are one of his favorite cars for repairing in a collision, he says it seems they do very well in accidents and the parts fit very well, good engineering.

His favorite by far is Subaru for car accidents.

 

[MrHorspwer]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I though the new aluminum f150 ex cab did poorly. Not near as well as the prev gen. did they do a quick fix ONLY AFTER being embarrassed by IIHS?

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=iihs...amp;FORM=VRDGAR


I missed the part where they said the 2015 Ford did poorly. What part of the video did they say that?


It's not that Ford did outright poorly, it's that the crew cab and the extended cab had significantly different results for 2015. The crew cab had an additional structural "wheel blocker" frame member that bolstered it's crashworthiness in IIHS testing that wasn't present on the extended cab. That was the difference between a good small overlap rating for the crew cab and a marginal for the extended cab.

This has been corrected for 2016 and both the crew and extended cab trucks have the "wheel blocker". Both received good ratings.

Still, it makes you wonder why Ford thought they could cut content from one truck, but not the other. This was questioned by the IIHS and while they didn't outright say it, the implication was that Ford was expecting an "acceptable" result for the extended cab and missed the mark, forcing them to own up to the missing "wheel blocker" and add it to the extended cab for 2016.

This is all relevant because Ford was the first redesigned truck since the unveiling of the small overlap test. Basically, the truck was the first one "designed" with the test in mind. The other full size trucks haven't had a refresh since the IIHS has rolled out the test. The new Nissan Titan should be the next updated truck since the IIHS changes. It'll be interesting to see how it fares.

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
If I ever need a new truck, Ford will be the one not only for this but they have more American content than Chevy and Dodge.


Equal to the Toyota trucks, correct?


Who knows. I won't consider a foreign brand. The 'Muricans make better trucks anyway IMO. No reason to consider sending my money to Japan and using lower paid non-union workers in the manufacture.

 

[jimbrewer]

Originally Posted By: RN89
So I saw this same post on another forum and many were saying something along the lines of, "your truck isn't as tough as you thought it was.."

But, theoretically, wouldn't my full sized pickup "win" in a crash against a smaller vehicle? Doesn't the heavier vehicle have the advantage? Not to mention the sheer size of a full-size truck, higher front end, more space from point of impact and driver, among the many other advantages a truck has over a car.

I'm no crash test engineer, but these are just my thoughts and a few of the reasons I choose to drive a large truck.


I think so. Those crash tests are normed by type of vehicle. A five star subcompact is NOT the equal of a five star full size.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
If I ever need a new truck, Ford will be the one not only for this but they have more American content than Chevy and Dodge.

Equal to the Toyota trucks, correct?
Who knows. I won't consider a foreign brand. The 'Muricans make better trucks anyway IMO. No reason to consider sending my money to Japan and using lower paid non-union workers in the manufacture.


I wonder which one has a higher actual United States content, since the published numbers include Canadian (and sometimes Mexican) content as "American".

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
Originally Posted By: RN89
So I saw this same post on another forum and many were saying something along the lines of, "your truck isn't as tough as you thought it was.."

But, theoretically, wouldn't my full sized pickup "win" in a crash against a smaller vehicle? Doesn't the heavier vehicle have the advantage? Not to mention the sheer size of a full-size truck, higher front end, more space from point of impact and driver, among the many other advantages a truck has over a car.

I'm no crash test engineer, but these are just my thoughts and a few of the reasons I choose to drive a large truck.


I think so. Those crash tests are normed by type of vehicle. A five star subcompact is NOT the equal of a five star full size.

As far as I know, even subcompact to get 5 star has to have structure that is not going to collapse hitting that obstacle.
Looking at the the test, many more small cars have better structure.
Truck can inflict damage because of the weight. However, that does not mean they will not sustain a lot or even more threatening damage. That is in collision with subcompact. In collision with Mercedes S class, BMW 7, Lexus GS or similar cars, they are done!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
Originally Posted By: RN89
So I saw this same post on another forum and many were saying something along the lines of, "your truck isn't as tough as you thought it was.."

But, theoretically, wouldn't my full sized pickup "win" in a crash against a smaller vehicle? Doesn't the heavier vehicle have the advantage? Not to mention the sheer size of a full-size truck, higher front end, more space from point of impact and driver, among the many other advantages a truck has over a car.

I'm no crash test engineer, but these are just my thoughts and a few of the reasons I choose to drive a large truck.


I think so. Those crash tests are normed by type of vehicle. A five star subcompact is NOT the equal of a five star full size.

As far as I know, even subcompact to get 5 star has to have structure that is not going to collapse hitting that obstacle.
Looking at the the test, many more small cars have better structure.
Truck can inflict damage because of the weight. However, that does not mean they will not sustain a lot or even more threatening damage. That is in collision with subcompact. In collision with Mercedes S class, BMW 7, Lexus GS or similar cars, they are done!


There was an accident posted on here a couple of years ago between an F-250 and a Civic. The F-250 bumper was buggered up, the Civic was about 12" tall. The truck literally drove over the car in a head-on. All of the occupants of the car were killed. Everybody in the F-250 was fine (the Civic driver was at fault).

A 5 star rating in a vehicle with low mass is going to be easier to obtain than one that weighs 8,000lbs. Subsequently, if you have two 5-star vehicles, one that weights 2,500lbs and one that weighs 8,000lbs, the 8,000lb one is going to "win", as it is literally impacting something with less than 1/2 the mass of hitting "itself".

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
Originally Posted By: RN89
So I saw this same post on another forum and many were saying something along the lines of, "your truck isn't as tough as you thought it was.."

But, theoretically, wouldn't my full sized pickup "win" in a crash against a smaller vehicle? Doesn't the heavier vehicle have the advantage? Not to mention the sheer size of a full-size truck, higher front end, more space from point of impact and driver, among the many other advantages a truck has over a car.

I'm no crash test engineer, but these are just my thoughts and a few of the reasons I choose to drive a large truck.


I think so. Those crash tests are normed by type of vehicle. A five star subcompact is NOT the equal of a five star full size.

As far as I know, even subcompact to get 5 star has to have structure that is not going to collapse hitting that obstacle.
Looking at the the test, many more small cars have better structure.
Truck can inflict damage because of the weight. However, that does not mean they will not sustain a lot or even more threatening damage. That is in collision with subcompact. In collision with Mercedes S class, BMW 7, Lexus GS or similar cars, they are done!


There was an accident posted on here a couple of years ago between an F-250 and a Civic. The F-250 bumper was buggered up, the Civic was about 12" tall. The truck literally drove over the car in a head-on. All of the occupants of the car were killed. Everybody in the F-250 was fine (the Civic driver was at fault).

A 5 star rating in a vehicle with low mass is going to be easier to obtain than one that weighs 8,000lbs. Subsequently, if you have two 5-star vehicles, one that weights 2,500lbs and one that weighs 8,000lbs, the 8,000lb one is going to "win", as it is literally impacting something with less than 1/2 the mass of hitting "itself".

I indicated that 8000lbs car will win. It will inflict damage on the 2500lbs car far worse then 2500lbs car will inflict on 8000lbs truck.
However, that does not mean 8000lbs will not sustain life threatening damage. I think Cvic is car where difference is just too big between those two vehicles. That is why I mentioned MB S class, BMW 7 series. In head on collision I woul rather sit in MB S class then Ford F150.

 

[OVERKILL]

That's why I put the qualifier of both having 5-star crash test ratings in there

And there is significantly less of weight difference between a BMW 7'er, S-class....etc and a truck than there is between that truck and a Civic, or even probably those cars and a Civic.

 

[thescreensavers]

Weight difference alone isn't just as black and white as you guys mention. Surely the 2500 vs 8000 lbs is an extreme example and will probably turn out how you guys are guessing but...

They tested a Crown Vic (Taxi) one simulated to be full of luggage and people(~1000+lbs heavier) and the other empty (just the driver)

Which one did better?

The empty Taxi fared better purely because the lighter taxi's frame was physically higher than the heaver taxi causing more intrusion damage to the heavier taxi.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
That's why I put the qualifier of both having 5-star crash test ratings in there

And there is significantly less of weight difference between a BMW 7'er, S-class....etc and a truck than there is between that truck and a Civic, or even probably those cars and a Civic.

I think it comes down to built quality.
These trucks are not hold to same standard as cars.
I do not want to even mention braking, handling etc.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: thescreensavers
Weight difference alone isn't just as black and white as you guys mention. Surely the 2500 vs 8000 lbs is an extreme example and will probably turn out how you guys are guessing but...

They tested a Crown Vic (Taxi) one simulated to be full of luggage and people(~1000+lbs heavier) and the other empty (just the driver)

Which one did better?

The empty Taxi fared better purely because the lighter taxi's frame was physically higher than the heaver taxi causing more intrusion damage to the heavier taxi.


?

Need some more details on that test. At face value one would conclude the lighter taxi did better because it had 1,000lbs less mass driving the impact. I would not have made any conclusion about ride height when weight is the most obvious driver. Where did the conclusion about height come from?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
That's why I put the qualifier of both having 5-star crash test ratings in there

And there is significantly less of weight difference between a BMW 7'er, S-class....etc and a truck than there is between that truck and a Civic, or even probably those cars and a Civic.

I think it comes down to built quality.
These trucks are not hold to same standard as cars.
I do not want to even mention braking, handling etc.


Maybe if you specify high-end German cars, where crash test performance is always top of the heap. Compared to normal cars, trucks are most certainly held to the same standard and probably higher regarding braking since they have to be able to stop loaded and towing.

My M5 had so many airbags that it was nuts. Two front, side curtain, side seat, rear curtain, rear pillars, front pillars....etc. That's a car with some rather extreme safety features going on. It also had large brakes and excellent handling. It was also a 100K car.

Compared to even my wife's Charger, which is 5 years newer, it has nowhere near the airbags, the brakes aren't even close, and while it handles well, the M5 was better.

My new SRT is much closer, but also 13 years newer and the top of the heap in that platform at the time, so it comes with Brembo's and better suspension.

Another example: My sister's 330i has the big brake kit on it, my wife's 328i didn't. Subsequently braking performance on my wife's car was not on-par with my sister's. And that's variance between the same car family and model series.

There are tons of variables in play, far too many to be able to state with conviction that this type of vehicle isn't held to the same standard as this type of vehicle based on a couple of anecdotes. If we leave out the big Benz's and Bimmers with their above and beyond crash worthiness things are a lot more muddy in the middle.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Another example: My sister's 330i has the big brake kit on it, my wife's 328i didn't. Subsequently braking performance on my wife's car was not on-par with my sister's. And that's variance between the same car family and model series.


You bring up a very good point. In this day and age, where we have mandated traction control, brake force distribution, ABS etc. and even the econoboxes seem to come equipped with 17-18 inch wheels, I still can't believe how puny some of the braking systems are.
I'm not talking about a Brembo style system in every vehicle, but is it really so much more money to add two piston calipers or ventilated rear discs, or keep the larger brake options in all trim levels, not just the most expensive ones? It would improve the safety of a lot of vehicles.