Toyota vs VW reliability

[VeeDubb]

These two makes are on opposite ends of the Consumer Reports reliability metric. And it just so happens that I own both an 07 Toyota Sienna and an 07 VW Passat. So what is my experience one year later?

VW - no unscheduled visits for repairs. The only issue is updating some software while I was in for an oil change.

Toyota - Dead battery, electronic driver's side window wasn't working properly. And just today, the CD player is no longer working. Won't eject or read the CDs in the player. So a trip to the dealer will be forthcoming this week. That would make it three unscheduled visits over the year.

I know, I know, some of you are going to tell me about statistical averages and so on and that one anecdotal story doesn't mean squat. And I get that argument.

On the other hand, if it takes a really large sample to detect a difference; i.e. if I'd have to buy 1000 VWs and 1000 Toyotas to get any statistical significance, perhaps the reliability gap between best and worse has been narrowed so much that it is no longer worth worrying about relative to other attributes of a car.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Exactly. My '01 A4 was more reliable than my '00 Accord. It's luck or karma I guess.

 

[simple_gifts]

My experience is VW people love VW's; can't tell them otherwise re: reliability; the average person who is not knowledgeable about "the experience" seem to quickly grow tired of the situation.

Many VW owners where I work. The enthusiasts "love" their cars despite peeling paint, pitted windows, rattling interior. One of the other two "regular" owners described her TDI Jetta as "the best drive train I have ever had surrounded by the biggest piece of junk" Many people define a great car as one that handles, accelerates and has a confident feel on the road; this is where VW's shine; Others need something to get them to work; I am that type of person and I will put my $$ on a Toyota.

 

[JHZR2]

we shall see, since we got a new rabbit.

No issues with a poorly rated 2004 saab 9-3, owned since new, so that one was wrong or we were lucky...

JMH

 

[VeeDubb]

And that's fine simple gifts. To each his own.

I posted this because we get frequent posts on this site about how VWs are the biggest pieces of unreliable [censored] ever created and Toyotas are bullet proof. The reality is that, while there is a difference, the difference is probably not as big as perception. In fact, even if you go through the VW complaints forums, most VW problems tend to be more of the irritating nickel and dime type and not the leave you stranded type of problem. And even the leave you stranded type problems give you plenty of warning before they leave you stranded, like the sludging issue in the 1.8T.

It's not like when you take a trip from NYC to LA that you have some astronomical probability that the VW will leave you stranded and the Toyota won't. It's more like, over a 10 year period, the Toyota might leave you will have 10 fewer unscheduled visits to the dealership or mechanic.

 

[simple_gifts]

I guess, VeeW, I got distracted and went on a tangent... I guess I was trying to indicate is that the if driving experience is important, then the additional cost of maintaining that experience is accepted by many; others are not prepared or not knowledgeable and wonder why there it is job to replace X and why it is so much.. I agree on the premise that there isn't enough variation to discard the experience for reliability.

This is probably a source of some of the irritation. One of Jetta drivers @ work is simply a "Walmart oil and lube" type of person, and the vehicle gets "whatever they put in".

 

[JHZR2]

And chances are that is all that is necessary for a 150k typical life. Other than some 1.8T issues, engines dont seem to be the source of complaints on VWs. it is the electronics...

JMH

 

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts


This is probably a source of some of the irritation. One of Jetta drivers @ work is simply a "Walmart oil and lube" type of person, and the vehicle gets "whatever they put in".



That's a good point. VWs do require more preventive maintenance like using the right oil.

 

[Pablo]

The LEAST reliable car I ever owned was a 1984 VW Sirocco - the thing leaked oil at the filter from new, both power windows died at less than 30K, ignition switch sparked then melted, fuel pump died at 30K, etc...., worse than a POS 1988 Chevy S-10 Blazer. So there.

Honestly - why the heck did we have to replace the PS pump on a 2006 Honda Odyssey at 8K miles? Pffft.....

There is a lot of broken khrap on my 1996 Volvo 850.

Best running with the most abuse from the owner operator (me)? 1985 Toyota Pick-up. Changed the oil every 2-3 years, started and floored it every couple months, hauled massive amounts of cow manure.......had a few things go prematurely (front seal defective, belt idler bearing) but not much else.

 

[leftlane]

This was discussed at length on another forum recently by owners of both. Much info here and if I remember right the last page shows toyota and vw reliability rankings by different raters which show vw is not even close to toyota in reliability.

http://www.corolland.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18980

 

[VeeDubb]

This was discussed at length on another forum recently by owners of both. Much info here and if I remember right the last page shows toyota and vw reliability rankings by different raters which show vw is not even close to toyota in reliability.

http://www.corolland.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18980 [/quote

Right. I'm not arguing the VWs are more reliable than Toyotas. I'm saying the gap may not be as big as perception. And I want to know what "not even close means." Are we talking 1 unscheduled visit per year to the mechanic? 5? 10?

 

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: Pablo

There is a lot of broken khrap on my 1996 Volvo 850.



Yeah, our 95 850 turbo had lots of broken [censored] too. After about 100K, control arms and various electrical issues were nickel and diming us to death. Never left us stranded though.

 

[TooManyWheels]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
And that's fine simple gifts. To each his own.

In fact, even if you go through the VW complaints forums, most VW problems tend to be more of the irritating nickel and dime type and not the leave you stranded type of problem. And even the leave you stranded type problems give you plenty of warning before they leave you stranded, like the sludging issue in the 1.8T.

It's not like when you take a trip from NYC to LA that you have some astronomical probability that the VW will leave you stranded and the Toyota won't.


I was looking at buying a new VW about six months ago and I did exactly this research. I distinctly remember failing auto transmissions were an issue. Also, there was a make, VW I think but not 100% sure, that had random shuts-down-while-driving problems. If it had been only problems like erratic windows/mirrors/A-C/stereo etc., then I could have dealt with that, but bad transmissions at low miles was a deal-breaker.

 

[buster]

The data shows Toyota is more reliable than VW. Just because you own 1 VW that gave you less trouble than a Toyota doesn't mean VW > Toyota.

 

[leftlane]

Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
And I want to know what "not even close means." Are we talking 1 unscheduled visit per year to the mechanic? 5? 10?


Thats referring to the rankings that I believe are cited on pg. 7 of the link. If I remember right toyota and honda reliability are ranked in the top 3 with the raters, vw is ranked around 13.

 

[artificialist]

The problem I see is that even if a VW gets the same reliability as a Toyota, replacement VW parts seem to ALWAYS cost 2-3 times as much.

 

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: buster
The data shows Toyota is more reliable than VW. Just because you own 1 VW that gave you less trouble than a Toyota doesn't mean VW > Toyota.

sigh.

Nobody reads anymore.

 

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
The problem I see is that even if a VW gets the same reliability as a Toyota, replacement VW parts seem to ALWAYS cost 2-3 times as much.


Yes, this is an important point. That along with number of unscheduled visits to the dealer per year. If we can get at these issues, that would give us an accurate picture of the true cost differences.

Pure ordinal rankings are meaningless and are useful for hype but not decision making.

 

[buster]

I like VW's. I would probably own one if it weren't for the 8 friends/people I know that have had them and had nothing but problems. One of them was my fiancee's 2001 and 1998 Cabrios. She spent a lot of money in repairs on both of those cars.

Hopefully they have improved and are better in quality. What I always found ironic with VW, was it's perceived quality based on the interior build quality which I always thought was above average.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Others need something to get them to work; I am that type of person and I will put my $$ on a Toyota.


Toyota: Because sometimes you have to drive, but don't really want to.