Tire Rotation - Never paying for a rotation again.

[wantin150]

On several occasions, I have discovered tire "defects" after rotation. Having the tires rotated also allows me to get a look at the brakes and underside(my guys let me watch the process) so I get to inspect my car on the lift. It's worth it to me. I buy expensive tires and want to get the most out of them. My Eagle F1 GSD3's lasted me 45,000 miles (FWD car, rotated every 5k, and replaced with 3-4 32/nds left)with a treadwear rating of 260. Towards the end of their life, I did my own rotations in the driveway. I'll take that any day. I will have to pay for the first rotation and balance for my new Scion but all the rest are covered free for the life of the tire. $40 bucks overall is money well spent.

 

[Carmudgeon]

Many modern BMWs use staggered setups, with directional tires, so it's a moot issue.

I do rotations myself, which doesn't cost anything, and on a more frequent basis, so the issues with different wear patterns don't really come into play. And as noted above, it's a good opportunity to do inspections.

On BMWs with a uniform setup, one can follow their advice, and live with the uneven wear (particularly if one has a heavy foot), and likely buy tires in pairs.

Or, rotate more frequently, to maintain a more even F/R wear rate and buy tires in fours.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Yet another 5 star post from CapriRacer....


seconded (or thirded, wherever I'm in the line in recommending a series of stickies by CapriRacer).

 

[Dominic]

Let me say this... AWD Impreza driven spiritedly on stock tires.

All 4 tires are evenly worn, no rotation or rebalance needed, tread is exactly 7/32" on all 4 all the way across the tread (checked in 3 sections). Did I also mention I run 40psi?

 

[Audi Junkie]

I rotate for seasons, waiting to put the deeper tread up front for rain/winter season.

Someone explain how wear rate is physically decreased buy rotating.


I can explain how it increases wear. Once a tire is worn-in, it's in it's lowest wear/mile mode. Change it to another position on the car, and wear increases until it is reset.
See? Once it's doing it's thing, it is making even contact and spreading it's load out. Say it's wearing on the inside, change it to another spot and the high spot wears down faster bcause it is not making even contact, only a portion of tread is applying pressure to the ground, wearing that high spot FASTER.

Shops say you need to rotate for "even" wear. You have to define "even". Is that even between all 4 tires or even across the tread? I don't want all 4 tires even, I want more tread in front.(another issue) imo, the best tread distribution is more like 60%f/40%r or more like 70/30, not 50/50 or even worse, more tread in rear.

fwiw, my tires ALL have worn flat with minimal rotating.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie


......Someone explain how wear rate is physically decreased buy rotating.....



I'll do my best, but I don't think anyone is saying "wear rate". I think they are saying overall wear is longer.

Quote:


....... Say it's wearing on the inside, change it to another spot and the high spot wears down faster bcause it is not making even contact, only a portion of tread is applying pressure to the ground, wearing that high spot FASTER. ......



If you think about, you've just explained why you get more wear. By rotating, you are getting wear from a portion of the tire that would be left behind. While the localized wear rate may be higher in the transition, it is this transition that extends the life of the tire.

Put another way, during the transition, the part of the tread that is already worn more, wears more slower until the less worn portion catches up. The net effect is that the overall wear takes longer.

 

[rcy]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I rotate for seasons, waiting to put the deeper tread up front for rain/winter season.



I've read/heard that it should be the other way around. The tires with the most tread should be at the rear of the vehicle so you don't find your back end passing your front end (oversteer) in less than optimal traction conditions (i.e. rain and snow). By having the tires with the least amount of tread in the front, you may experience understeer which, while not great, is MUCH easier to control than oversteer.

Here are a couple of websites that explains why...the first one quoting Michelin...

http://www6.autonet.ca/Maintenance/Tires/story.cfm?story=/Maintenance/Tires/2001/11/09/511272.html

http://www.niosh.com.my/nors/roadsafety/car002.htm

 

[rcy]

Ok..just tried to edit my post, but apparently my time is up. Just found another post where new tires on rear etc. etc. has all been argued about before. So please ignore my post, no need to fight over the same thing again.

FWIW, I rotate my tires myself once a year. I have dedicated winter tires/rims, so the rotation for the winters happens in the fall, and the rotation for the summers happens in the spring.

For those who do rotate, should I even ask what rotation method is best?

 

[wantin150]

I have to rotate same side front to back for the directional tires I run. Even with my asymetric and symetric treaded tires, I still go same side front to back. This has worked for me and my vehicles over the years. I can honestly say that I have never had a wear issue which wasn't my fault (excessive speed during cornering for example). I'm anal about alignment and pressure so that may have contributed some too.

 

[mva]

I do the exact opposite - I have had good success rotating the tires corner to corner once a year in order to reverse the direction of rotation.

One thing not mentioned so far is the fact that for snow and ice it can be hazardous to have different wear or different tires on the front verses the back. Rotation evens out the wear and provides even traction all around.

I just noticed that my Honda's manual recommends front tires to back and back tires to opposite front corner. I'm going to give this a try. The fact that rotation is recommended by Honda indicates to me that it is probably beneficial.

 

[Audi Junkie]

It's dangerous to have low tread. Would you rather have 5/32" or 6/32" in front when you need to stop or turn in rain? After the same miles of driving, you could have more tread in the front, by having less in the rear. Remember, the fronts do more work, turning and stopping as weight is transfered forward.
I saw a poster at the tires shiop that made me laugh. Laugh and cry at the same time. It showed a car makeing a turn through a puddle. With new tires in front, it showed the rear slinging around. With the new tires in rear, it showed the car tracking right through the turn/puddle, no problem. What they "forgot" to show is that when those bald fronts hit the puddle, the car goes strait and does not turn, at all. Most drivers are hitting the brake at this point, making a bad situation worse. It goes to driver skill, which those demo videos TOTALLY lack.

The whole thing is VERY misleading and that makes me wonder how many Minivans full of moms and kids are smashing strait into stopped cars or going strait in turns when they want to steer, but their front tires are hydroplaning. All in the interest of avoiding the rear spin, that, imo RARELY happens.

fwiw, my MiL's Minivan is set up with new tires up front and she made it through winter ok. With the bald tires in front, she would be stuck and not able to stop or steer. Oh, well.

 

[wantin150]

Hydroplaning is also related to speed so my question is that if soccer mom is crashing into parked cars and straightening out curves/turns, why was so going that fast to begin with? With all due respect, in my 8.5 years of experience, most wet weather wrecks were blamed on hydroplaning when they were nothing more than driving too fast. Wet roads doesn't equal hydroplaning.

And of the poster you saw, did the caption specifically say that the front tires were bald? 2/32 is still considered legal. Given adequate tread depth, I'll take an understeer condition over an oversteer condition any day.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Low tread in rear=oversteer, low tread in front=understeer AND reduced braking and ability to move in snow (FWD)

 

[shoz123]

Worn tires in the back will for sure put you in a spin when it raining and you do some sudden maneuvers or braking. Too much personal experience here I can say.

 

[Audi Junkie]

No, they don't. I guess bald tires up front are a godsend, hey? No problem there.

 

[mstrjon32]

In my experience, FWD cars have always handled best with the better tires on the BACK, even in the snow and the rain. Most FWD cars have very poor weight distribution with a huge bias towards the front, so unless your tires are completed bald, putting the better tires in the back makes sense.

Really the best way to go is to have good tires on all 4 corners.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Ok, I'm sitting in 8 inches of snow. Better to have the good tires in back, eh? Just bought 2 new fancy super premium top of the line tires....back, of course. That's where all the handling and feedback comes from, right?

 

[PT1]

I rotate myself on 2 of the 3 vehicles. Inspect brakes, tire wear, suspension, shocks, then torque the lugs back to spec. I am getting another 15% treadwear with rotation at every 5000 OCI. Takes 30 minutes and the long term ride/steer quality is great.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Yet another 5 star post from CapriRacer....

Free tire rotations and rebalancing (along with free flat repairs) comes with the $9.76 install package at Sam's.

So, rotations are pretty cheap for me as well. Plus, I don't have to rotate the tires on the motorcycle either.


Yeah but how long do you have to wait to get it re-done? Both times we looked into getting tires at the wal/sam enterprises, the wait was ridiculous, and the prices werent superior.

JMH

 

[Virtuoso]

My time with my family is important, so I pay a shop $10 to rotate my tires while I'm at work. The ten bucks gives me another hour at home to mow the lawn, or do some work around the house, or a game of chess with one of my daugthers..

FWIW I usually rotate once during a tire's lifetime. A set of Khumo PowerStar's gave me 60k of service with one rotation and perfect, even wear. The set of Dunlop SP 60's that replaced them have not been so good. If I get 45k out of them I think I'll be doing good...and they've already started to cup.