Three entry level filters cut open.

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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Oops, Gastonia, NC. Partstmaster has to be a Wix. Looks like a Napa Pro Select.


Can't tell, but does the Parts Master have the funky combo ADBV/bypass valve? No actual separate bypass valve? If so, really don't like any filter with the combo valve. I stay away from those and ecore filters too.


I was wondering that when I looked at it too... I'm no fan of combo valves either.
 
Certainly not a huge media surface area in the FRAM filter.

I bet if you opened the media out and laid it flat there would be maybe twice as much surface area doing the filtering in the other filters as compared to the FRAM.
 
Thank you very much Kruse for sacrificing the filters and your time in cutting and posting.

Thanks Jim for the info regarding combo ADBV/bypass valve issues.
 
Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
My last 3 Purolator 30001's going back 4 years, did not have the string around the media.


This filter was recently purchased at a WM, so it is a fresh one.
 
Originally Posted By: NMBurb02
I think he's talking about the vertical seam where the filter media meets itself after it makes its way around the core.


^^Yep,this :^)
 
Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
My last 3 Purolator 30001's going back 4 years, did not have the string around the media.


What`s the purpose of the string? Looks "cheap".
 
Perhaps the string helps in assembly during glue up. I can't think of any other reason for it, but that doesn't mean much.

Perhaps the guy in charge of assembly has a no good brother in law who sells string, and threw him a bone.
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
The Parts Master has one very bad mark against it... combo ADBV/bypass valve. Very definitely cost cutting technology and many think it is a very suspect new addition to the filter world... me included.....

+1 I'm not a fan of the nitrile combo valve design, afaik first used on an ecore. In the PM pictured though it looks more like a fat rubber grommet (ARCO's term) as opposed to the flat design of the ecore. It's the bypass part of the nitrile combo that most concerns me. Just how reliable can nitrile/rubber be in maintaining the correct bypass psi in all conditions over an oci? No, I prefer a standard separate adbv and either thread/base or dome end bypass. And I agree that the PM has no known efficiency rating, unlike the other two pictured. Of the three, the PM would last.

Also since the PM appears to be use for commercial accounts, unlike the other two, the price is lower. If looking for a comparison to some Purolator products used in for commercial accounts, either Group7 or ProMotive (sold at Advance) would be a lower cost option to the Classic but unlike the PM still has separate adbv and dome bypass. One member posted recently their shop gets the G7 for
Al things considered, efficiency rating, construction and price, I'd choose the Classic here. Thanks for the pics.
 
VERY few pleats on the Fram. This re-establishes my stance on never running a Fram.
 
Even without an actual count, it's obvious there are far fewer pleats on the OCOD, reinforcing my belief that they are over-priced. I would use the PM filter over the FRAM, even with the suspect combo valve.
 
To furtehr comment, the fiber endcaps on the Fram Extra Guard don't bother me a bit. Also, the thing you guys are forgetting about the Fram is that, a) it's a blended media and b) it's a 5K rated FCI. That puts the amount of media in perspective because a blended media will carry more contamination than a pure cellulose one and a wise bean counter will put in the amount of media needed to make the required and recommended FCI, plus a bit of safety factor. The filter show is rated at 95% @ 20 um. The vaunted MC is only 80% @ 20 um, though the Classic is claimed to be ~97% @ 20 um. The real downside to the Fram is the price.
 
I think the concern of the Pro Tec combo valve is not warranted as I trust the WIX engineering department as they produce millions of filter and are definitely responsible for their performance regardless of its tier. The by pass valve on the Purolator filter does not look like anything great or above what the Pro Tec filter has to offer, the Pro Tec combo valve is only a shock factor to some people because it is hard imagine something so simple can work, Purolator can not even get the filter media in the filter can without a silly string so give me a break what other manufacture has that issue?

The filter media are a whole other subject but lets assume all three filter meet or exceed manufactures warranty so lets forget about that discussion.

I think Purolator filters are well made and have used them but am just pointing out what I could attack as a lack of quality if I felt I wanted to do so.

Toto.
 
Toto, the concern about the combo valve is very warranted because it's not just coming from schlubs like me, it's come from engineers and experts in the filter industry who don't fully trust it. And the concern is coming, in some cases, from engineers within the companies implementing them. I think Sayjac knows what I mean if he talked to the same guy I did.

Wix isn't the only one with a combo valve. It might be fine (now or at some later point) but when a guy who designs filters for a living tells me off the record that he has tested them and doesn't trust them, I take notice. Until I see a track record laid down, for me, it's "trust but verify." I'll let you do the R&D for me, even though I think this will be a feature mostly in low cost, "price point" filters which aren't my bag.

What concerns me about a "rubber" bypass valve is the changes that come from heat aging. In that regard, I would trust a silicone valve more than nitrile. A metal spring type valve, IMO, is a lot less subject to changes in operation over time than a soft valve. I can't think of any reason why it's "better" operationally than more conventional metal or metal/plastic valves, but I see it could be a great manufacturing cost saver for the mfr. and that's what would make it appear on lower cost filters to increase the profit margin.

I acknowledge that it's certain Wix, and others, have tested this setup and found it "adequate." The way I see it people can't jump on other mfrs. for design issues deemed by them to be also "adequate" (like endcaps, bypass valve designs, bypass location, etc.) and not be highly suspicious by this obviously cost-saving design. Those that can ignore this and other the other stuff are more into brand names (e.g. Brand name uber alles) and justify the technology according to their favorite and condemn the technology of their least favorite, rather than being objective about the different approaches to technology.
 
Jim, what is the concern about the combo valve? As it ages with heat cycles, does it becomes less rigid and bypasses more oil with time? aka, the effective psi of the valve lowers as it ages?
 
I'd think as it ages the rubber gets stiffer and therefore changes the way the bypass valve might operate. Also, on cold start-up with the rubber is super cold and the oil thick, I would question the operation of the combo valve.

Have a plain and simple spring operated bypass valve just seems much more constant and reliable to me.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I'd think as it ages the rubber gets stiffer and therefore changes the way the bypass valve might operate. Also, on cold start-up with the rubber is super cold and the oil thick, I would question the operation of the combo valve.

Have a plain and simple spring operated bypass valve just seems much more constant and reliable to me.


Plus, we see ADBVs that don't seal all the time and they are the same material. When was the last time you saw or heard of a metal or hard plastic bypass valve fail? I'm very willing to have my mind changed here but there are enough doubts in my mind for my current opinion to be avoidance of filters with this valve.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I'd think as it ages the rubber gets stiffer and therefore changes the way the bypass valve might operate. Also, on cold start-up with the rubber is super cold and the oil thick, I would question the operation of the combo valve......

And it's exactly that scenario that makes me wonder if some of the blown out media/holes seen in Webfor's ecores was caused at least in part by nitrile combo valve malfunction/distortion, ie, instead of going into bypass excess psid directed to media, thus the media holes. And Webfor's does live in Canada, gets pretty cold there. Just a thought.
 
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I'd think as it ages the rubber gets stiffer and therefore changes the way the bypass valve might operate. Also, on cold start-up with the rubber is super cold and the oil thick, I would question the operation of the combo valve......

And it's exactly that scenario that makes me wonder if some of the blown out media/holes seen in Webfor's ecores was caused at least in part by combo valve malfunction, ie, instead of going into bypass excess psid directed to media, thus the media holes. And Webfor's does live in Canada. Just a thought.


+1 ... entirely possible chain of events.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I'd think as it ages the rubber gets stiffer and therefore changes the way the bypass valve might operate. Also, on cold start-up with the rubber is super cold and the oil thick, I would question the operation of the combo valve......

And it's exactly that scenario that makes me wonder if some of the blown out media/holes seen in Webfor's ecores was caused at least in part by combo valve malfunction, ie, instead of going into bypass excess psid directed to media, thus the media holes. And Webfor's does live in Canada. Just a thought.


+1 ... entirely possible chain of events.


And +2 from me. My judgement is reserved at this point awaiting more information.
 
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