Thoughts on tankless water heaters

[alarmguy]

I had a gas tankless one lasted about 4 years, replaced it with a gas tanked hot water heater.
Tank water heaters are better.
They will last 20 to 30 years if you change the sacrifical anode.

I couldn't agree more.
Our new home came with Tankless after decades of having a tank water heater I would take the tank anyday but had no choice, some high end builders that know what they are doing will still choose the tank.
I think Tankless is a cost cutting thing for builders. Smack it on the side of the building and you are done. They get them dirt cheap in bulk but you WILL pay a fortune to have it replaced

Tankless and Tank heaters have been around for 50 or 70 years. Mostly 3rd world countries had tankless but somehow we were convinced tankless are better. They are not as far as I am concerned. I speak from experience of decades of gas water heater with a tank.
I never replaced the anode so only get about 12+ year from one but even then, 3 tank water heater replacements over 30 or 40 years would still be less then tankless and the tankless as you experienced dont last as long either and plumbers really whack you in cost to replace one. Let's not forget also with tankless in most all the country the coil needs to be flushed/cleaned every year to maintain hot water! Sure depending on your local water maybe you will go 3 years but someone has to hook up a pump every year to 3 years and flush it out.

Dont think for a minute it is energy saving. Even the .gov site doesnt make that determination. It's not as simple as one might think, it doesnt cost a lot to keep hot water in an insulated tank.
Its not really cheaper without a tank as the tankless is constantly starting up and turning off, there is ramp up time to hot water (wasting water waiting) and every little on and off of the faucet turns that tankless on, constantly ramping up the heater and leaving hot water to cool rapidly when it turns off. I also question the efficiency being it needs to fire up fast and hot for water and call me crazy but that baby is blowing out some hot air as it does.

Anyway, just my thoughts, it is cool in the sense that the tankless doesnt take up room but I wish to god I had a tank. Just to much to think about with tankless when I never had to think about anything with the tank, its more complicated, more things to break, more maintenance = more costly and forget about replacement time, holy smokes I cant believe what some people are getting quoted in the older section of our community. Its INSANE.

 

[D1sc]

Been installing up till 17 when I officially stopped doing siders. Always favored takagi but the first I did was a Paloma 80%-185k 7”pipe no direct vent. My last house had one on each floor. Today i use a takagi 199 92%. I use a descaling system and after filter changes I back flush 5 gal. Pics are the current setup and some past ones

 

[D1sc]

Seriously if a tankless only lasted someone 4 yrs.Then someone did something wrong or it’s defective. If any of the 4 that I installed had issues I would most definitely know.I have gotten call backs on my generac installs so I know they haven’t lost my number. As I said,my current system with all the water acidity and sediment problems has been steady since I moved in in 17 in Wisconsin. Sorry can’t load pics for some reason

 

[D1sc]

I think or rather know from seeing different brands that generalizing about tankless makes as much sense as any other widely produced product. But in the past I’ve seen some defective ones electric and gas,but never a takagi.

 

[alarmguy]

Seriously if a tankless only lasted someone 4 yrs.Then someone did something wrong or it’s defective. If any of the 4 that I installed had issues I would most definitely know.I have gotten call backs on my generac installs so I know they haven’t lost my number. As I said,my current system with all the water acidity and sediment problems has been steady since I moved in in 17 in Wisconsin. Sorry can’t load pics for some reason

Do you have soft water or hard water?
Many people in some areas, especially with city water need to have the tankless water heaters, flushed out by a plumber to three years.

You might actually be better off with well water since no chemical is added to the water to prevent pipe corrosion in public water supplies. These chemicals coat the inside of the heat exchanger with a slime that greatly reduces heat transfer necessitating frequent coil treatments to clean it out.

Other than saving money for a builder and saving some space I can’t see why, and what advantage there is to tankless water heater that will cost more money over the long-term

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

It's like they want to make the united states into a third world country.

Well for starters you have extremely hard water in New Mexico so that's probably your issue.

 

[oil pan 4]

Well for starters you have extremely hard water in New Mexico so that's probably your issue.

Well maybe they shouldn't be pushing them in hard water areas that will kill them in 4 years.

 

[CDX825]

Well maybe they shouldn't be pushing them in hard water areas that will kill them in 4 years.

If you managed to kill a tankless in 4 years it was lack of maintenance on your part. Especially if you killed it because of the water quality. They have to be flushed yearly.

 

[KrisZ]

Here are my questions

1. Is this true that tankless water heaters will not result in flooding when they fail when compared to tank water heaters?
2. What are your experiences good and bad with the units?
3. Can the annual maintenance be a DIY job for a noob or is this a professional only job? And what are typical annual maintenance costs for a professional?
4. How long do they typically last in the real world?

1. They can still flood as the water is always pressurized in the copper coil. If the coil fails or the various valves, it will flood. But at least it will not rust though like a tank.
2. Mine was pretty good because:
- I had a water softener so the maintenance wasn't as critical. I did the cleaning once and I didn't see any sediment in the cleaning solution.
- You have an endless supply of hot water
- The biggest downside was the long wait time for the hot water to start flowing. You need to get into the habit of FULLY opening ONLY the hot tap.

4. It can definitely be DIYed, provided the heater was installed properly with isolation valves. Otherwise you just buy a cheap sump pump from HF and some tubing and you're good to go.
5. Not sure, I lived in that house for only four years and never had trouble with the heater.

 

[oil pan 4]

If you managed to kill a tankless in 4 years it was lack of maintenance on your part. Especially if you killed it because of the water quality. They have to be flushed yearly.

Not a problem with a tanked heater.
I drag it outside every 2 to 3 years and dump the crust crap out and check the anode. No extra crap to buy or chemicals to mess with.
So I'd have to buy a pump, flush it out with acids, every year. No thanks.
And it wasted water, took longer to get hot.

 

[CDX825]

Not a problem with a tanked heater.
I drag it outside every 2 to 3 years and dump the crust crap out and check the anode.
So I'd have to buy a pump, flush it out with acids, every year. No thanks.

So clearly you have never owned one.

 

[oil pan 4]

So clearly you have never owned one.

I still have the fn thing you want me to post a picture of it?
Tankless heaters are garbage if you want to waste money on them be my guest.

 

[CDX825]

I still have the fn thing you want me to post a picture of it?
Tankless heaters are garbage if you want to waste money on them be my guest.

Well you said you would have to buy a pump and flush it so it doesn't sound to me like you have had one and if you did then like I said before you didn't maintain it.

 

[KrisZ]

I still have the fn thing you want me to post a picture of it?
Tankless heaters are garbage if you want to waste money on them be my guest.

I wouldn't call them garbage because that would imply they do not work. They do work and work quite well.
But they are definitely not as great as many make them out to be. They don't provide any savings and they require more maintenance.
To an average home owner, they are more headache for sure over a traditional tank unit.

 

[D1sc]

Do you have soft water or hard water?
Many people in some areas, especially with city water need to have the tankless water heaters, flushed out by a plumber to three years.

You might actually be better off with well water since no chemical is added to the water to prevent pipe corrosion in public water supplies. These chemicals coat the inside of the heat exchanger with a slime that greatly reduces heat transfer necessitating frequent coil treatments to clean it out.

Other than saving money for a builder and saving some space I can’t see why, and what advantage there is to tankless water heater that will cost more money over the long-term

I have tested it and it was beyond the range that the hirsch anti scale at 45 gpg max can handle which is why I have two in series but no softener since 17 when I set it all up.The takagi I use is great and the fourth of that exact model I have installed.I talk to my customers and recommend annual back flushing and checking the inlet screen if I didn’t do a y strainer. Don’t care if plumbers don’t like them,i like the smaller footprint this system with no softener takes.And it’s city well water.

 

[UncleDave]

Had them both. Both in gas and in electric.

I prefer the gas tankless with a recirculator.

If you have a length of cold pipe to fill the only way to fix that is with a recirculator, without that the tanked unit has a slight edge in delivering the first bit of hot water, but both have to fill the pipe before something comes out.

After that - ones supply is finite the other is not.

With the tanked unit I found myself running out of hot water during the holidays with 6 people in the house, or anytime someone actually took a bath and others showered at the same time. The women soak up the hot water under the guise of needing time for their hair and the guys going last got cold showers. I dont really care if Im saving, anything because the savings is tiny if at all.

Whats with women's ability to stand in a 130 degree shower anyway? I digress...

The maintenance is easy - the cheapest sump pump and a home depot bucket fulll of vinegar once a year and you're done.

I never had room to remove an anode rod with a tank, but still got like 15 years out of them.

 

[D1sc]

I wasn’t sure when I installed the first one a Paloma mounted on the chimney due to a 7” vent but my other half says 2000.

 

[D1sc]

Well you said you would have to buy a pump and flush it so it doesn't sound to me like you have had one and if you did then like I said before you didn't maintain it.

What is the model ect.

 

[D1sc]

As for maintenance I have a large y strainer. And back flushing is all I do and it’s super easy.No vinegar since it is all brass copper or stainless

 

[fantastic]

As for maintenance I have a large y strainer. And back flushing is all I do and it’s super easy.No vinegar since it is all brass copper or stainless

I just bought a suburban 60k btu propane RV tankless & it has brass water tubes/stainless burner but it says to use vinegar.