Snow tires VS winter tires??

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
As a note to the positive though, the difference in the snow with winter tires is nothing short of remarkable. I have found that people who never use them more or less discount the improvements, but those who do use them become steadfast evangelists.

Of course. I live in Colorado. Still cannot understand people who drive on All seasons in winter.

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
As a note to the positive though, the difference in the snow with winter tires is nothing short of remarkable. I have found that people who never use them more or less discount the improvements, but those who do use them become steadfast evangelists.


+1

also amazing how many grocery getters I saw last summer at the store with half tread blizzaks or winterforce.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I have noticed some of the cars in the parking lot at work have been showing up with GT Radial and Runway snow tires. I'm not going to ask them how their snow tires perform ... would be a bit awkward haha.

However, I am strongly considering getting a set of Imperial S110 snow tires from Tires-Easy (Deltacom) if they are still available in the fall. They are a cheap Chinese made tire - but if they work well in the snow, I think they would be able to put an end to the "snow tires are too expensive" crowd.

The difference between all seasons and even the bottom of the barrel Winterforce tires that I use make an amazing difference in the snow. To the point that I am always passing stuck AWD / 4x4 vehicles when driving up the hill on which I live!

 

[Gasbuggy]

I have Michelin snows on my CTS-V since I take business trips to New Hampshire. I hate them. Seems like these performance snows are made with shallow tread to increase stability that I don't need. I want some deep snow tire tread. I would welcome the car underperforming in handling in exchange for more snow traction.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Shark
I have Michelin snows on my CTS-V since I take business trips to New Hampshire. I hate them. Seems like these performance snows are made with shallow tread to increase stability that I don't need. I want some deep snow tire tread. I would welcome the car underperforming in handling in exchange for more snow traction.

What Michelin? PA4 or X-Ice3?
In Europe (unfortunately European markets get top-notch winter tires unlike North America) Michelin and Bridgestone are just average performers.
Continental is the on setting standards.
I have Bridgestone Blizzaks now (LM-60) and while they are very good in snow, ice, they are horrible on dry. I think I might get new Continental wintercontact SI next year.

 

[jmb3675]

I have the Michelin X-Ice Xi3 tires on my Focus. They made a night and day difference. They are good in deep snow, and excellent on ice and snow packed roads. The stopping distance on slick surfaces is nothing short of amazing. They are decent on dry pavement also as long as the temps are 40f and under. We had a day that was almost 50 degrees last month and they felt pretty mushy, but handled fine.

My F-150 with the Michelin LTX MS2 tires(which I assume is mud and snow), Is much better in deep snow. They seem to bite and throw it out of the treads better, but the Xi3s on the Focus are so much better on ice and packed snow, and slightly better in slush.
I refer to my winter tires as snow tires, even though I know the difference.
When my winter tires get worn too much for another winter, I may run them the following summer until they are worn out, depending how they feel. From what I understand, the rubber is harder after a after a certain wear point, which may make them feel better when it is warmer.

 

[krzyss]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
I have noticed some of the cars in the parking lot at work have been showing up with GT Radial and Runway snow tires. I'm not going to ask them how their snow tires perform ... would be a bit awkward haha.

However, I am strongly considering getting a set of Imperial S110 snow tires from Tires-Easy (Deltacom) if they are still available in the fall. They are a cheap Chinese made tire - but if they work well in the snow, I think they would be able to put an end to the "snow tires are too expensive" crowd.

The difference between all seasons and even the bottom of the barrel Winterforce tires that I use make an amazing difference in the snow. To the point that I am always passing stuck AWD / 4x4 vehicles when driving up the hill on which I live!


The tests of Chinese branded and made winter tires that I read showed that they are usually very good in snow and very bad at everything else. But it may have changed. Hard to imagine that they are worse than Winterforce but maybe.

Krzys

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: krzyss
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I have noticed some of the cars in the parking lot at work have been showing up with GT Radial and Runway snow tires. I'm not going to ask them how their snow tires perform ... would be a bit awkward haha.

However, I am strongly considering getting a set of Imperial S110 snow tires from Tires-Easy (Deltacom) if they are still available in the fall. They are a cheap Chinese made tire - but if they work well in the snow, I think they would be able to put an end to the "snow tires are too expensive" crowd.

The difference between all seasons and even the bottom of the barrel Winterforce tires that I use make an amazing difference in the snow. To the point that I am always passing stuck AWD / 4x4 vehicles when driving up the hill on which I live!


The tests of Chinese branded and made winter tires that I read showed that they are usually very good in snow and very bad at everything else. But it may have changed. Hard to imagine that they are worse than Winterforce but maybe.

Krzys

That is usually case with all cheap winter tires. They have very simple, soft compound, and it is good in snow. Due to aggressive tread pattern, they are usually good in very deep snow, if not better then some top brand winter tires. However, at first curve they fail miserably, not to mention on ice, dry warm weather etc.

 

[cjcride]

Snows have improved through the years.
Use them on front and rear. Mixing with All Seasons is like wearing a snow boot on 1 foot and a running shoe on the other foot.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
I've never seen tires marketed/sold as "snow" tires, did you see that somewhere? I don't believe there are snow tires, only winter ones. But I don't know everything.


One of the tires on my Genesis is a "Bridgestone M880 Snow Traction". I have also seen Toyos with "SNOW TRACTION" on them. (These are 22.5" class 7/8 truck tires.)

 

[Mr_Joe]

Originally Posted By: fsskier
I should add: Yes, you can successfully use winter tires on the back of a RWD car, it will not be as safe or responsive as having them on all 4 corners, but it will be stable on the highway.

You MUST not run winter tires on the front only of a FWD car. With the rear end sliding around everywhere, stability at highway speeds on snow is awful. Yes, I have tried it. Beyond awful. Try pushing a grocery cart around backwards with the castering wheels now on the trailing end and you will immediately understand.


I realize some things work for one guy and not the next. I run 2 Blizzacks on the drive axel, 3 vehicles, 2 front wheel drive. We don't live in the extreme snow belt, just normal Winter driving with snow and ice. I've done this for over 10 years. Not only have I not had a problem, but it's much safer than just all season tires all around.

How does one drive on winter and potentially slippery roads? Hopefully they drive carefully, snow tires or not. I've never had the back end slide around, unless I was trying to do it.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Mr_Joe
Originally Posted By: fsskier
I should add: Yes, you can successfully use winter tires on the back of a RWD car, it will not be as safe or responsive as having them on all 4 corners, but it will be stable on the highway.

You MUST not run winter tires on the front only of a FWD car. With the rear end sliding around everywhere, stability at highway speeds on snow is awful. Yes, I have tried it. Beyond awful. Try pushing a grocery cart around backwards with the castering wheels now on the trailing end and you will immediately understand.


I realize some things work for one guy and not the next. I run 2 Blizzacks on the drive axel, 3 vehicles, 2 front wheel drive. We don't live in the extreme snow belt, just normal Winter driving with snow and ice. I've done this for over 10 years. Not only have I not had a problem, but it's much safer than just all season tires all around.

How does one drive on winter and potentially slippery roads? Hopefully they drive carefully, snow tires or not. I've never had the back end slide around, unless I was trying to do it.

Good for you. What happens when deer jumps out, you loose control etc? Or you need to avoid obstacle?
Your solution works until first accident.

 

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted By: Mr_Joe
Originally Posted By: fsskier
I should add: Yes, you can successfully use winter tires on the back of a RWD car, it will not be as safe or responsive as having them on all 4 corners, but it will be stable on the highway.

You MUST not run winter tires on the front only of a FWD car. With the rear end sliding around everywhere, stability at highway speeds on snow is awful. Yes, I have tried it. Beyond awful. Try pushing a grocery cart around backwards with the castering wheels now on the trailing end and you will immediately understand.


I realize some things work for one guy and not the next. I run 2 Blizzacks on the drive axel, 3 vehicles, 2 front wheel drive. We don't live in the extreme snow belt, just normal Winter driving with snow and ice. I've done this for over 10 years. Not only have I not had a problem, but it's much safer than just all season tires all around.

How does one drive on winter and potentially slippery roads? Hopefully they drive carefully, snow tires or not. I've never had the back end slide around, unless I was trying to do it.


Works great until the first time you have to brake hard for something. When you get to that point, the rear end is going to come around FAST.

 

[Lapham3]

My wife's winter only driven '93 Grand Cherokee with the Michelin LTX M+S has been great. We got many winters and 80k miles and not shot yet but came up to another winter and I was surprised to find all those years later that they were still made-so bought another set with about 25k miles so far. I think the only way to stop that Jeep in snow would be to get high centered.

 

[Ken2]

Capri's explanation is great, as usual.

Did the walnut shell particles themselves give more traction, or were they in the rubber to create small voids in the rubber as the shell bits were flung away, and these voids then assisted the traction?

As to the winter snow tires on just the rear, why don't you want improved steering and braking from the fronts when in the snow?

I just returned from a ski trip to Austria. In Austria and Germany four winter tires are used on just about every car I saw; I don't know if it was required by law or just the custom for responsible drivers. The only exception I saw was a rental with chains.

 

[HangFire]

I think the "Snow Tire" versus "Winter Tire" distinction is a useful one. Many people remember big clunky-tread Conventional or Bias-Ply belted Snow Tires on RWD vehicles that could dig through and throw snow enough to get a vehicle moving, at the price of a noisy, bumpy ride.

Since they were only used a few months out of the year, these tires were heavily cost-driven and nothing to get excited about for any other performance parameter. The need to purchase only two (for RWD) made them more viable back in the day when credit was not as widely available, and the word "debt" had a bad connotation to most.

By using a new name, people can more easily leave their preconceptions behind, and pony up the money for all four wheels, and a much better tire experience in Winter weather.

While I see Winter Tires as only incrementally better than All Seasons, I also realize that in low traction situations, just a bit more traction is all that is needed to get moving, corner, or slow down. The flip side of this is I am still a very small threshold away from losing traction. My new Arctic Altimax's seem amazing as I pass cars with spinning All Season radials, but I have to remind myself that I'm still only a small traction threshold away from ending up in a ditch.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

Where I'm from (western Canada) we tend to describe Winter tires as either "snow" tires or "Ice" tires, and that pretty much describes how they perform. Basically, the question RE: is it a Winter tire, is whether they are rated for below +40F or not. You need a different compound for grip below that temperature.

Best compromise tire I've used on Passenger Cars are Continental ExtremeWinterContact; almost as good as, say, Blizzaks on ice but much better than typical ice radials in snow, wet or dry cold pavement, etc.

For the truck, for a true truck tire (ie LT235, not a P235 type) best I've found are made by Cooper. Had Nokians, hated them (very low wear, tread came off in chunks).

Also worth noting is the "soft in winter" compounds do not go all the way through the tread; after about one third tread wear, you're riding on the non-sticky warm weather-like compound. Which is why you want to avoid running a specialized winter compound in warm weather ... you are burning thru the compound you paid for, to help in winter.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Also worth noting is the "soft in winter" compounds do not go all the way through the tread; after about one third tread wear, you're riding on the non-sticky warm weather-like compound.


I'm not sure if this is still true across all Winter tires.

I've been reading reviews about unstudded General Arctic Altimax tires (introduced around 2007, I think) getting 3 and 4 Winters of service in, and still have great ice traction, just the usual falloff of hydroplaning control with loss of tread depth. If it still has great ice traction, that would indicate to me it is still presenting the silica compound to the road.

 

[Ken2]

I have snow tires. Hankook Winter i*cept evo. Good in snow.

On ice?...missing in action. The three different Blizzak models I've used in the past were all better on ice and equally good in snow. Next time Blizzak.

For the driver with snows only on the front--that worked for my wife's cousin until she was turning and ran across an icy spot part way through the turn. She didn't like riding in an Acura pinwheel.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Ken2
I have snow tires. Hankook Winter i*cept evo. Good in snow.

On ice?...missing in action. The three different Blizzak models I've used in the past were all better on ice and equally good in snow. Next time Blizzak.

For the driver with snows only on the front--that worked for my wife's cousin until she was turning and ran across an icy spot part way through the turn. She didn't like riding in an Acura pinwheel.

I owned once Hankook winter tire, after that, I would not touch them with remote control.