Peak Auto Sales; New Car Sales Are Declining
- Thread starter Wrenchturner44
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JHZR2
Staff member
This, so much! So stupid.
LED Headlights are now standard (2024)
Available LED fog lamps cut through the mist in murky conditions. Available LED Dynamic Bending Headlamps adjust for clarity around curves creating a wide beam to help you see what's off to the side. LED headlamps are standard on all F-150® models.BTW-Ford (as I stated in another thread) has consolidated their option packages (and has raised prices to include these) to try to help their abysmal build quality.
Probably 95% of the population cannot get by without a car. Transit is ludicrously inconvenient in most areas where its even available and Uber and Lift are neither cheap nor convenient.
Unless we see significant population decline, which is not in the cards for the next few decades at least, we won't see any decline in new vehicle sales.
Used cars?
Their existence depends upon new car sales.
All of this has nothing to do with being a car enthusiast and everything to do with the need for personal transportation since there is no other option for all but a few people.
Unless we see significant population decline, which is not in the cards for the next few decades at least, we won't see any decline in new vehicle sales.
Used cars?
Their existence depends upon new car sales.
All of this has nothing to do with being a car enthusiast and everything to do with the need for personal transportation since there is no other option for all but a few people.
And they blather on about cars not selling we dont need more 60-100k cars.. esp. ev's.
Just was at the Cleveland autoshow. Was pretty eyeopening.
They had compass's for over 42k. I paid 28.5k for my fairly loaded trailhawk cherokee.. everything except the elite/tech pkg and sunroof.
Throw on some 6-9% interest if you have good credit...
Niro looks like a decent replacement for the elantra.. but all controls on the touchscreen.......
I was impressed with the corolla cross hybrid for ~30k and the rav4 at 35k.
I liked the Golf.. but it was 44k!?!?!?
Dont get me started on jeep anything. The ones I thought were 50k-60k were 77-85k.
There is a very small market for those kind of priced vehicles vs 20k-35k
Subarus were all sorta blah. The new outback was decent but I'd rather the 2.4TGDI in a forester package.. maybe coming 2026 with a hybrid.
The new trax and the buick version were alot of car at <25k The 27k equinox wasnt too bad either.
In the parkinglot was a blacked out Audi with the license plate I K UR MAD
I was waiting for someone to put their starbucks cup on his roof *lol*
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If I sum up the total of the last 5 vehicles I’ve owned, it’s STILL less than a single, well-appointed Expedition. No wonder new car sales are tanking. Part of it is due to inflation, but a big part of it is due to the costs incurred for the labor to build them…
JHZR2
Staff member
Maybe. But it’s likely a smaller bit than you think. Look at the example of a base vs limited F-150… $50k for stupid options over the actual vehicle?!? That’s not labor. As much as many would like to hate and blame the UAW, I suspect there’s more to the cost than that.
Owen Lucas
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2005 Scion tC Base Auto MSRP $16,800
2023 Toyota GR86 Base 2D Auto $29,400 (modern equivalent)
Running these $16,800 through https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ using 2005 - 2024 = $26,530
The $2870 difference could be attributed to additional modern technologies present in vehicles today.
I tried to make this as close to comparing apple to apples. I think more greedflation is baked into prices of premium vehicles resulting in more of a difference in historical price that is beyond the cost of technology and inflation combined. let me run some more examples.
I’m not blaming labor itself directly; I think everyone’s aware of the tactics that were used, and I feel they were despicable. I don’t mind paying for a good product, but when it’s overpriced and full of issues, i feel that’s a big problem.
I take solace in the fact that this will be a mostly self-correcting issue. As car prices enter the stratosphere, the lack of sales will make manufacturers reconsider the “optional” costs, along with finding ways to cut manufacturing costs as well. In the big picture, our pain will be temporary.
Owen Lucas
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2005 Ford F150 XL Reg Cab 4WD MSRP: $25,750
2024 Ford F150 XL Reg Cab 4WD MSRP: $41,585
Inflation adjusted price: $40,664.30
2005 BMW 7-Series 760Li 4D Sedan MSRP: $117,300
2024 BMW 7-Series 760i xDrive 4D Sedan MSRP: $121,300
Inflation adjusted price: $185,239.70
2005 Audi A8 L 4D Sedan Qtro MSRP: $69,900
2024 Audi A8 L 55 4D Sedan Qtro MSRP: $90,900
Inflation adjusted price: $110,385.81
2005 Cadillac Escalade ESV 4D SUV AWD MSRP: $58,805
2024 Cadillac Escalade ESV Luxury 4D SUV 4WD MSRP: $87,895
Inflation adjusted price: $92,864.63
Despite the addition of more advanced technologies over the past 20 years it looks like inflation adjusted prices have remained below average in this small sample study.
I think the issue is earnings have not caught up with inflation.
2024 Ford F150 XL Reg Cab 4WD MSRP: $41,585
Inflation adjusted price: $40,664.30
2005 BMW 7-Series 760Li 4D Sedan MSRP: $117,300
2024 BMW 7-Series 760i xDrive 4D Sedan MSRP: $121,300
Inflation adjusted price: $185,239.70
2005 Audi A8 L 4D Sedan Qtro MSRP: $69,900
2024 Audi A8 L 55 4D Sedan Qtro MSRP: $90,900
Inflation adjusted price: $110,385.81
2005 Cadillac Escalade ESV 4D SUV AWD MSRP: $58,805
2024 Cadillac Escalade ESV Luxury 4D SUV 4WD MSRP: $87,895
Inflation adjusted price: $92,864.63
Despite the addition of more advanced technologies over the past 20 years it looks like inflation adjusted prices have remained below average in this small sample study.
I think the issue is earnings have not caught up with inflation.
I guess I need to run to the nearest BMW dealership and buy a 7 series tomorrow
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I uses to drive <$3000 beaters. Now you have to spend $10000 to get a beater.
Get rid of the tech, what a total bunch of BS in a vehicle. Give me the basics. And I don't even care about LED headlights, I can get those aftermarket for $1500 if I really want them.
Manual transmission, manual windows too please.
But hey, I'm a dinosaur and I'm only 40.
Get rid of the tech, what a total bunch of BS in a vehicle. Give me the basics. And I don't even care about LED headlights, I can get those aftermarket for $1500 if I really want them.
Manual transmission, manual windows too please.
But hey, I'm a dinosaur and I'm only 40.
That's how cars have always been... tack on a few stupid options and get 150% of base price.
There's an assumption that they're making money at base... maybe, maybe not. And there's "Hollywood Accounting" with regard to "invoice" price, holdbacks, etc.
But a loaded *whatever* has been and always will be hugely profitable.
It costs more to make a manual window regulator, but it's worth if if they can (claim to) make a vaporware base model that you can't find, and can't order, if the base price meets their marketing target.
The biggest difference I see now - and I know it's been a gradual buildup over the past 10-15 years - is that you can't spec single options any more. If I buy an F-150, but want leather seats, I have to step up $15k to the Lariat version over the XLT; there's no single "leather seat" option any more. Forcing people into entire trim levels for a single thing (LED headlights on Super Duty trucks is a good one) is definitely beneficial for the manufacturer on margins, but not for the buyer.
Even something as asinine as seat or exterior color is tied to packages now; I was looking at a new 2024 Mazda6, and specific exterior colors are trim-locked. Black, white, or red? Sure, base trim. Blue? Nope, that's only available with a $12k trim upgrade option! (An exaggeration, but relevant.)
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Price and stupidity in new cars is a big part of it. Another big part is popution. The core working population aged 25-55 flatlined years ago. There labor participation rate is as high as ever - but no labor growth, no car sales growth. Young people can't afford them, retired people don't need them, working age isn't growing.
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These days its actually cheaper to keep that tech, then to go back to manual everything albeit with a few caveats.
Agreed. I have college aged family, and the struggle is real. Helped too that there was plenty to choose from as well. When I was in college, it wasn’t uncommon to see kids with new Civics, Corolla’s, Escorts, Cavaliers, S10s, Rangers, and many more. And used cars weren’t crazy priced either. But then profits became more important than people…..very little choice now-by design……..
In inflation adjusted real world cost, many appliances are less expensive, while labor is higher. Thus more replacements and fewer repairs. But the true cost of cars has increased, mostly due to all the government mandated crap installed, plus excessive regulation. If GM was allowed to sell a 1956 Chevy today, it would cost less than the original and last longer, due to modern manufacturing methods. But, much as I miss my 1956 Chevy, that can’t happen. Also, QC has slipped of late. My tractor was made in 1959, as was one of my chest freezers. Still running.
I bought my last new vehicle in 1996. I still miss that K2500 Suburban. My wife and I believe “two is one and one is none.” Both Corollas are 2007 5-speeds, one barely past 240K and one over 380K miles. The SUVs are 1992 and 2004. Primary 3/4 ton is 1986, backup is 1982. Listen to this retired, fixed-income guy: if you drive old enough cars, they appreciate instead of depreciating. And you can maintain them at home. And they are FUN. Now to get my 1956 and 1966 Internationals back on the road…
I bought my last new vehicle in 1996. I still miss that K2500 Suburban. My wife and I believe “two is one and one is none.” Both Corollas are 2007 5-speeds, one barely past 240K and one over 380K miles. The SUVs are 1992 and 2004. Primary 3/4 ton is 1986, backup is 1982. Listen to this retired, fixed-income guy: if you drive old enough cars, they appreciate instead of depreciating. And you can maintain them at home. And they are FUN. Now to get my 1956 and 1966 Internationals back on the road…
SammyChevelleTypeS3
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I LOVE it. How you would not bend or break and that is what they count on lots of times.
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