Old wives' tales

[Falcon_LS]

So I was with a group of supposedly 'like minded' individuals this evening, who had on going conversations related to automobiles. Roughly half an hour or so later, I decided it was time to leave.

Maybe it's the BITOGer in me, but some of the things those people so firmly believed made absolutely no sense to me, and when I made a comment all I got were blank stares. To share a few examples:

- American cars have terrible suspensions, and are anything but comfortable. You bounce from one speed bump to another.

Ever considered the possibility that your shocks are shot?

- Front wheel drive is the best transmission system, it provides for a comfortable driving experience with great handling.

I'm admit disliking front wheel drive, and have no idea what you're referring to by a 'comfortable driving experience'. But working on a transversely mounted V engine for anything like a timing belt or spark plugs is an absolute nightmare. Torque steer and over steer aren't exactly great for handling and cornering, either.

- Japanese cars are only good for 200,000 kilometers, then you dump them. You will experience a loss in power, smoke, oil consumption and the pistons get weak very quickly. My Civic's engine failed at 140,000 kilometers!

Honda engines last forever. If your Honda failed at only 140,000 km, you have the cr@ptastic Middle Eastern lubricants and your maintenance habits to thank for that. Then again, you probably used 20W-50 by default in an engine requiring 5W-30 or a 5W-20 because 'it's so hot'.

- German cars are just not made for the Middle East, they always run hotter than other cars.

Ever thought of the possibility that the engine was designed to run hotter? The engineers probably found it to be the ideal operating temperature for their engines. It really has nothing to do with ambient temperature.

Half an hour was all I could take.

 

[SLCraig]

Those things are all so stupid I can't honestly even believe you that they were really said by a human being.

 

[Colt45ws]

I got to the second one then I busted out laughing and fell on the floor.

 

[CROWNVIC4LIFE]

Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Those things are all so stupid I can't honestly even believe you that they were really said by a human being.


I hear similar stuff like that in Miami and Fort Lauderdale..I have to walk away also.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Maybe it's the BITOGer in me, but some of the things those people so firmly believed made absolutely no sense to me, and when I made a comment all I got were blank stares.

Not sure of the background of the group and certainly not to stereotype, but change the topic to IT in a group such as this and you will likely receive some equally ignorant statements.

 

[chubbs1]

Cr@ptastic is my new word of the day. Funny stuff

 

[SWS]

I know what you mean. I would have had to leave also... I too have seen the 'blank stares'! Over many years of honestly trying to learn and understand 'all things automobile' (as a hobby), I realized several years ago in a moment of reflection that most of it is folklore, often with elements of truth and based on real (partial) observations. However, fact, observation, opinion, and speculation quickly become merged into something that sounds good, but really should not be trusted.

I met a guy years ago that was notably successful at weekend drag racing. After several conversations over several months of time, I realized that he did not spend time on the 'latest thing', rumors, etc, he just improved his engine, tranny, suspension, etc, over time, as he made runs and ignored all of the folklore about Chvy engines. I think he spent his time and money productively!

 

[morris]

ok ok old wives tales. how about this, i know you all have herd this, "dont put a battery on cement". ok what think?

 

[Falcon_LS]

Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Those things are all so stupid I can't honestly even believe you that they were really said by a human being.


The same stuff is discussed online, take a look at this. Here are a few actual quotes from the thread:

Quote:
it was just like you said at the end of 90s or beginning of 2000s but now audi, saab, mercedes and bmw are making really comfortable and good cars which they even give you guarantee for some years.but i cant tell you the same about japanese cars...


Quote:
European cars...Parts also usually take ages (avg. 2 weeks - 1 month) to arrive since they have to almost always order them unless ur lucky and they somehow have a leftover previous order.


Quote:
Toyota actually call me to remind me about my oil change. Thats how good their service is.


Quote:
There are very few japanese cars which can be compared to german cars in terms of overall handling/comfort/reliability/performance and the ones which are, aren't cheap either. Americans are boats on wheels when it comes to handling.


Quote:
mostly japanese cars do 200,000km tops. The engine breaking isn't the only issue, the loss in power is. A 150k driven Corolla's/Honda's engine isn't half as good as a similar 4 cyl 318's (baseline model) engine with 150k on the clock. (I've personally replaced the engine of my 7th gen Civic after only a 140k kilometers - smoke, loss in power, decreasing oil - pistons get weak relatively quickly)


Quote:
Even in newer S class Mercs the AC is not powerful enough to deal with our heat and the engine always runs a bit hotter than it should...


Quote:
As for american cars being comfortable - I guess we all have different perception of comfort. For me personally, starting to bounce at one speedbreaker and keep bouncing till the next speedbreaker is not comfortable. Immense body roll throwing you right across your car like in those crown victorias every time you take a u-turn or even a simple turn at 60 isn't comfortable for me either. But then that's just me.


Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Not sure of the background of the group and certainly not to stereotype, but change the topic to IT in a group such as this and you will likely receive some equally ignorant statements.


I wouldn't be surprised. They genuinely believe their point of views, and there's no willingness to accept what anyone else has to say.

Stuff like this (especially 'stereotyping' cars of different origin) is literally what everyone here has believed for many years, which is why I call them old wives' tales.

Originally Posted By: morris
ok ok old wives tales. how about this, i know you all have herd this, "dont put a battery on cement". ok what think?


Another one would be "You must use the thickest oil you can find in extreme heat, or your engine will fail. Thin oils are for cold countries".

 

[onebigunion]

When I bought a Toyota Tercel in 1984, my father-in-law told me the engines in Japanese cars were designed to only last 30k miles. Every 30k miles, until the car got T-boned at 190k miles still running well, I'd call him and tell him I just put another engine in the car.

 

[190E26FTW]

It's amazing what a lack of information or education does to people.

The only tale I would believe is that Japanese cars are made from recycled soda cans from the USA. Because that one is true...we export our CRV cans to Japan while they import back cars. hehe

CRV= California Redemption Value

 

[Maritime Storm]

I work as a partsman in a shop, I hear worse than this every day.

 

[addyguy]

Not to stir the pot....but the first comment Falcon encountered isn't EXACTLY an old wives tale.

American vehicles generally DO have softer suspensions than European or Asian vehicles, and generally don't handle as well as their oveseas counterparts.

Of course, this will become noticeably worse if the cars suspension is shot...but the general trend of 'American handling' being much softer is true.

 

[eljefino]

I think heat does things to people. 105'F is incredibly more uncomfortable than 85'F to a human used to being 98.6'F but to a car running at 215' it's only around 20% worse for heat rejection.

Since people personify their machinery; if they can't hack it, the car must be suffering greatly as well and needs some "protection" the engineers overlooked.

 

[rslifkin]

^ I think that's exactly it. Heck, my mom's Jeep (which had a pretty sludgy cooling system at the time, since been cleaned up) survived 108* sitting in traffic with the A/C blasted just fine (as well as highway crusing), and she said it never got over 210* (with just an e-fan). Mine didn't either that day, although my cooling system is almost spotless. Both had T6 in them, and hers showed the same OP at idle as normal (38 psi), mine showed just a hair lower (normal is about 30-31, showed just on the bottom edge of the mark, probably 29 or so).

 

[rg200amp]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Not to stir the pot....but the first comment Falcon encountered isn't EXACTLY an old wives tale.

American vehicles generally DO have softer suspensions than European or Asian vehicles, and generally don't handle as well as their oveseas counterparts.

Of course, this will become noticeably worse if the cars suspension is shot...but the general trend of 'American handling' being much softer is true.


+1

Ofcourse, if your buy a vette, it's going to have a harder suspension.

But for the most part on everyday sedans and stuff, the euro counter parts have been a little harder.

Also about the front wheel drive.

I think people say it's a "better" system because it is good for driving in the snow. For performance, it is third to AWD and RWD.

Also, in regards to Falcon's point about FWD being plagued with oversteer:

In all the FWD cars I have drove, along with my 2011 VW, FWD cars suffer from massive amounts of Understeer.

 

[Falcon_LS]

Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Also, in regards to Falcon's point about FWD being plagued with oversteer:

In all the FWD cars I have drove, along with my 2011 VW, FWD cars suffer from massive amounts of Understeer.


Sorry, I had a blonde moment.

That *should* have read understeer.

 

[rslifkin]

And personally, I don't find FWD better in the snow except with bad tires at speeds less than 2 - 3mph. Once you're above a parking lot crawl, and especially with good tires, I'll take RWD no problem in the snow.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Quote:
European cars...Parts also usually take ages (avg. 2 weeks - 1 month) to arrive since they have to almost always order them unless ur lucky and they somehow have a leftover previous order.

It does happen. To Asian cars too.
Early Mazda 929s use the same Jatco RE4R01A as many Nissans. But the valve body is unique to the 929. No one in N. America had one. Took us 3 weeks to get it from Hiroshima.

I had a customer that was upset that we did not keep brake parts for her Saab in stock and would take a day to get them. I told her that sometimes it takes a day or so to get Swedish car parts.
She said, and I quote, " My car isn't Swedish. My car is European."