Officer Wilson to not be federally charged

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Win
Unfortunately, witnesses lie all the time. That's why you have trials - to try to get to the truth of the matter.


Exactly.

Which is why this case should have gone to trial at some point.

I don't think Wilson would have been convicted, honestly. It just seems awfully silly (suspicious?) that there wasn't a trial.

 

[dnewton3]

JHRZ2 -

It has been decided time and time again in both state and federal courts that officers have the ability to use ALL information available to them to tailor their actions and reactions. This suspect, and his previous convictions of shooting at cops as well as other crimes, was known to the shooting officer. The shooting officer even called the suspect by his first name! (Jerame). If you listen to the video, he clearly knows the person and is aware of the risks this person affords to the situation.

Therefore, some assumptions of threat level are allowable past what a "normal" traffic stop would entail. I would never curse and wave a gun at someone I don't know for a simple traffic violation. But if I had previous experience and interaction with the person, to a manner in which I knew him on a first-name basis, then I can use that knowledge to add to my reaction plan. Further, a known felon with a gun in his perview makes this a deadly force UoF situation.

CLEARLY from the video the suspect was not only non-compliant, but resisting commands. You can see the officer having to force the door closed several times and shouting to "not move", etc. The suspect can even be heard stating he was getting out.

And he was shot for it.

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
And you've got to believe that the DOJ was directed to find ANY leverage whatsoever to appease the masses of protesters.

I'm not so sure. The pressure on the other side of the equation has been pretty significant.


Originally Posted By: dnewton3
it pretty much is an indication that Wilson didn't act incorrectly.

Actually, it's an indication that the evidence against him didn't meet the Federal standards. There's a difference.

The Grand Jury SHOULD have indicted him. I know a lot of attorneys and every single one who has commented on the case has said that the State prosecutor clearly mishandled his case.


The real take-away here is that we don't know what happened except that Wilson shot and killed Brown. Period. This means we can't say he's guilty OR innocent. We have to learn to let our suspicions be suspicions.



And I know others that would disagree with your references.

We also know way more than just "Wilson shot and killed Brown. Period." Forensic evidence shows his hands were not up as many witness claimed. It indicated from the blood trail spatters that he was quickly advancing on Wilson when shot. There is evidence of physical trauma on Wilson's head and face. Don't be so glib as to act like because we were personally not there, no one knows anything.


I have to put my faith in the system here. The GJ was informed and ruled. Case closed.
Same goes for the FBI/DOJ; they reviewed and found no civil violation of rights. AG Holder can override his prosecutorial investigators and file, but that would really smack of bias now, wouldn't it? Case closed.




Rather than whine about the fact that some don't like the outcome based upon personal emotion, we should learn from this and educate ourselves.
I didn't agree with the OJ Simpson criminal verdict, but I accepted it and learned from it. And so did the LEO community; we are much more dilligent about evidence collection and chain of custody, etc. Tools of the trade, so to speak. And I suspect those tools were used extensively in the Brown/Wilson cases.


Each case is an opportunity to learn and grow. Part of the lesson here is more cameras may be a good idea.
But then when the facts clear the officer, we need to get over it and move on. If there were a camera present, and the GJ ruled the same, would you feel any better or worse?

Our system is NOT perfect. Our system is as good as any other, and probably "better" than most. Our system can be fine tuned at every opportunity.

But our system has ruled at the state and federal level.

Time to move on.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
JHRZ2 -

It has been decided time and time again in both state and federal courts that officers have the ability to use ALL information available to them to tailor their actions and reactions. This suspect, and his previous convictions of shooting at cops as well as other crimes, was known to the shooting officer. The shooting officer even called the suspect by his first name! (Jerame). If you listen to the video, he clearly knows the person and is aware of the risks this person affords to the situation.

Therefore, some assumptions of threat level are allowable past what a "normal" traffic stop would entail. I would never curse and wave a gun at someone I don't know for a simple traffic violation. But if I had previous experience and interaction with the person, to a manner in which I knew him on a first-name basis, then I can use that knowledge to add to my reaction plan. Further, a known felon with a gun in his perview makes this a deadly force UoF situation.

CLEARLY from the video the suspect was not only non-compliant, but resisting commands. You can see the officer having to force the door closed several times and shouting to "not move", etc. The suspect can even be heard stating he was getting out.

And he was shot for it.


Don't deny this, and as mentioned, the Bridgeton case IMO, despite hands up, likely was justified. If I lived in Cumberland County and was on a jury, given the facts Ive seen to this point, and video as Ive seen, I would find it all justified.

But the danger is in some of these tactics and behaviors becoming business as usual and slipping into more elements of more routine interactions with the public.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Win
Unfortunately, witnesses lie all the time. That's why you have trials - to try to get to the truth of the matter.


Exactly.

Which is why this case should have gone to trial at some point.

I don't think Wilson would have been convicted, honestly. It just seems awfully silly (suspicious?) that there wasn't a trial.


Well, no. The Grand Jury weighed all that and came back with a no bill. That's what they do. If you can't get a charge from a grand jury, it's a really, really, weak case.

End of story, at least that chapter of it.

 

[Mystic]

So what about all the businesses that were burned down? And the consequences for this town in the future?

Maybe people should wait until the investigations are done before they start going crazy. At the end of all of this the Justice Department (run by Attorney General Holder) are not going to file any charges against Wilson. But that is not going to change the fact that several businesses were burned down in Ferguson and some of those businesses might not return. And there will be even less employment opportunities than before.

Congratulations hot heads. Now you can live with what is left of your community.

 

[MalfunctionProne]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
So what about all the businesses that were burned down? And the consequences for this town in the future?

Maybe people should wait until the investigations are done before they start going crazy. At the end of all of this the Justice Department (run by Attorney General Holder) are not going to file any charges against Wilson. But that is not going to change the fact that several businesses were burned down in Ferguson and some of those businesses might not return. And there will be even less employment opportunities than before.

Congratulations hot heads. Now you can live with what is left of your community.


Didn't Holder resign?

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^Holder has announced his intentions is to leave soon. He has a cushy job lined up that pays him millions per year.

Typical...

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

Brown was a cocky, full of himself bully who believed he was answerable to no one and found out differently. What was the officer suppose to do, let that kid beat him to a pulp just because Brown was black? That's not how it works. Not in Missouri, Nebraska or any other state. Assaulting a peace officer will get you killed. Thank all peace officers and those in the military for putting the uniform on. Be safe men and women. Your family is expecting you to come home.

 

[Mystic]

Holder called for a federal investigation. Obviously they could not find any reason to file charges against Wilson.

Who gets hurt in the long run? Holder is moving on to some to something nice and Al Sharpton is moving on to the next incident. The people of Ferguson will live among the burned out ruins.

In the end, the people living in the community affected by riots and businesses being burned has to deal with the destruction, regardless if the police officer involved shot somebody in justification or not.

And in any case, even if Officer Wilson had shot Michael Brown without justification (and he was justified in shooting), THE BUSINESS OWNERS WHOSE BUSINESSES WERE BURNED DOWN DID NOTHING WRONG!

 

[MalfunctionProne]

Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
I had a different take on this whole incident, from the get go. My impression of Officer Wilson (From interviews on TV) is that he just does not have the command presence to be a LEO. If he did, no way young Mr. Brown would have went in the window after him.

This is not to say that Officer Wilson did anything wrong, or that I have the slightest blame to place on anybody but Mr. Brown.........But some people have the "Alpha" presence to be cops, and some don't. I have met 5'2" women cops that have it. My impression is Wilson does not, and if he did, the incident would have turned out completely differently.


You bring up an excellent point about people unfit to be cops.

I remember in Newark one time. Cop got out of her car. Her physical demeanor and attitude screamed that she was most likely maybe all of 18 or 19 years old, and in college.. jumped in her car, and lit up the first car that passed her. She had just exited a bodega, presumably getting some food or items...

Point being: it has nothing to do with the physical, though everyone thinks it does.

 

[MalfunctionProne]

And PLEASE confirm that Holder is no longer the D.A.

 

[Mystic]

Holder was still the DA when the federal investigation was ordered. And the victim should never be blamed. So Wilson is guilty anyway because he did not have 'command presence?'

If somebody attacks a police officer, and tries to get the officer's gun, regardless if the police officer has 'command presence' or not and regardless if the police officer is a 6'5" 250 pound man or a 5'2" 125 pound woman, lethal force is justified. Why? Because if the individual attacking the police officer does get the gun away from the officer the officer is likely going to be shot, and possibly other people as well.

And I know an officer who was attacked by a guy at the State Fair and that guy tried to get the officer's gun. It was unbelievable that somebody would try to take that officer's gun. That guy is a bull. Super strong. He did not shoot the guy who tried to take his gun but that guy probably really regretted trying to get that gun. I can assure you that officer has 'command presence.' He is one of the strongest guys I know of. And this is proof that some people will even attack the most powerful officers.

 

[splinter]

Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
And PLEASE confirm that Holder is no longer the D.A.
D.A.?

iirc Eric Holder is still the acting Attorney General, with the administration currently awaiting a 'suitable' replacement.

http://www.justice.gov/ag/meet-attorney-general-0

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Holder called for a federal investigation. Obviously they could not find any reason to file charges against Wilson.



I suspect that at some point, this qualifies as checks and balances. Im sure if some of the "P"/racial/other elements were swapped, it would be portrayed as such.

 

[MalfunctionProne]

Originally Posted By: splinter
Originally Posted By: MalfunctionProne
And PLEASE confirm that Holder is no longer the D.A.
D.A.?

iirc Eric Holder is still the acting Attorney General, with the administration currently awaiting a 'suitable' replacement.

http://www.justice.gov/ag/meet-attorney-general-0


Ahh, I see. So he isn't gone yet. Thanks!

Watch there be a "suitable" replacement in 2016..

 

[mrsilv04]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Who gets hurt in the long run? Holder is moving on to some to something nice and Al Sharpton is moving on to the next incident. The people of Ferguson will live among the burned out ruins.


The burned out ruins, which weren't burned out ruins until after Brown's step-father repeatedly screamed to burn them down.

Apparently, inciting a riot in this way, which led to millions and millions of dollars in damages, doesn't rise to the level of prosecution in St. Louis County.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Win
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Win
Unfortunately, witnesses lie all the time. That's why you have trials - to try to get to the truth of the matter.


Exactly.

Which is why this case should have gone to trial at some point.

I don't think Wilson would have been convicted, honestly. It just seems awfully silly (suspicious?) that there wasn't a trial.


Well, no. The Grand Jury weighed all that and came back with a no bill. That's what they do. If you can't get a charge from a grand jury, it's a really, really, weak case.

End of story, at least that chapter of it.


That's only true if the prosecutor earnestly and straightforwardly pursues an indictment. According to his own statements in the press conference immediately after the proceedings, that's very clearly not what he did.

He had officer Wilson testify. He presented witnesses that were everywhere on the credibility spectrum. He gave "all sides" of the case.

In other words, at best, he tried to use the Grand Jury as a court lite, which is not how it's set up. At worst, he was intentionally trying to confuse the Grand Jury so they wouldn't indict. Either way, he basically poked holes in (what was supposed to be) his own case and kept them on full display.

He's lucky the Grand Jurors can't talk about what happened.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Mystic
Holder called for a federal investigation. Obviously they could not find any reason to file charges against Wilson.



I suspect that at some point, this qualifies as checks and balances. Im sure if some of the "P"/racial/other elements were swapped, it would be portrayed as such.

Honest question, JHZR2.

Why are you using that euphemism, "P"? Isn't it grossly disingenuous at this point?

The no-politics rule no longer meaningfully exists on BITOG. I don't see the point of pretending otherwise, especially when the pretense is so blindingly thin. It honestly comes across like you're trying to talk about something in a way that the kiddies can't figure out.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Mystic
Holder called for a federal investigation. Obviously they could not find any reason to file charges against Wilson.



I suspect that at some point, this qualifies as checks and balances. Im sure if some of the "P"/racial/other elements were swapped, it would be portrayed as such.

Honest question, JHZR2.

Why are you using that euphemism, "P"? Isn't it grossly disingenuous at this point?

The no-politics rule no longer meaningfully exists on BITOG. I don't see the point of pretending otherwise, especially when the pretense is so blindingly thin. It honestly comes across like you're trying to talk about something in a way that the kiddies can't figure out.


Because Im lazy to write politics. Why are you trying to make something out to be more than it is?

Im sorry, not everything has to be be political though it can be made out to be. A number of these topics, if tread properly, can be discussed without being overtly political. Some people try their hardest to make them so. And you don't necessarily see the number of other posts that do get removed in the process of watching the forums.

But like is said over and over, the few of us that mod this forum have day jobs and lives, we don't see every post or every thread. And a read on a topic or post may not be the viewpoint of the person submitting a notification. But we do rely upon them to do our best.

What amazes me is why some work effortlessly to make things that are borderline to be political, when they could be discussed without going over that line...