Nano-based lubricant from Millers Oils

[A_Harman]

Hi 67King,

I am trying out Redline's Heavy Shockproof gear oil in the differential of my Corvette this year. Can you explain the difference between Millers NT lubes and Redline's Shockproof?

 

[67King]

Indy, unfortunately for us, we are no longer affiliated with Herta. Millers had a technical development partnership - so Millers worked with Herta to develop an oil for them, there was no money changing hands. It was to be in place for 3 years. This year, a major oil company, I'm still not sure which one, approached Herta about a primary sponsorship. Given the magnitude of those deals which I'm pretty sure are in the millions, BHA and Millers have mutually dissolved their partnership. BHA has tried to reach out to other teams on our behalf, but I'm not sure of any progress.

Phillip, the damper oil isn't available at present. We have been in discussions with some major damper manufacturers to try to get it to them for evaluation, so it will be developed further. But as of right now, it is not a normal product.

A_Harman, the big difference is feature size. Well, that and the actual additive. The additive (moly, I'd guess) in Shockproof is huge by comparison. I believe they also use a lot more of it. Speculation. But, when you pour the oil, you can actually see the stuff. So it is likely tens if not hundreds of microns in size. With Millers, the feature size is much much smaller, under 100 nanometers, putting it 2-3 orders of magnitude smaller. As a result, the NT primarily fills the low spots between the asperities, making the surface much more like a true solid surface. The feature size in Shockproof will force it to sit on top of the asperities, and it will also be more prone to shearing down. An analogy that I kind of visualize is a bed of nails. If you have two of them sitting on top of each other, that's what metal surfaces look like. The Millers would sit within each bed of nails, filling all of the low spots and effectively making each surface smooth, whereas the Shockproof would be like a sheet between them. So the Millers is going to remain in tact when they surface slide, but the Shockproof additives would still have the asperities (nails) working against them, eventually wearing out them.

You will see some differential manufacturers such as Wavetrac tell you specifically to NOT use the stuff. Those torque biasing types of diffs (also Torsen, Quaiffe, etc.) require some sort of friction to work. I have also read, though not on a manufacturers site, to NOT use the stuff with clutch type diffs, as it would be a threat to gum up the friction disks. So that pretty much leaves spools and open diffs.

At any rate, they design it to handle high shock loads. I would guess that would be the initial application of load for drag racing applications. They don't mention anything about rolling or sliding friction, which is what MIllers' is designed to reduce, and what is the type of friction in a differential. And we've seen drops of 25 degrees or so in transmissions and differentials (I believe the comparators include the Shockproof) due to this drop in friction. Millers has been used by several folks with Wavetracs in the UK, without issue. We're working with them here to provide them some oil to evaluate. Since my business partner who runs a race (road racing) shop has some relationships with some diff and transmission builders/manufacturers, we've had our stuff used in a variety of applications. We have had an issue with one, which was a guy with a Honda who tried our 75w90 gearbox oil in a Honda that specified a MUCH thinner oil. But within the specified viscosity range, we've had nothing buy positive outcomes.

A similar type of situation to clutch type diff would be a wet clutch on a motorcycle. Our stuff will never get JASO approval, but the engine oils with the same NT additive have been used successfully in those applications.

Again, though, our background is road racing. The Shockproof seems to be primarily a drag racing type of product, and though I know people use it in other places, we can't really compare how ours would fare against it in that type of environment.

I'd also be wary of the Shockproof in a transaxle, as the synchros also need to be able to grab. I know their heavy stuff is recommended against for synchros. On their site, they do say it is okay to use with synchros, but list primarily dog type transmissions.

At any rate, we typically recommend our customers avoid the LS additives for transaxles, as the LS additives cause an issue with synchros. However, the non-LS versions are used by a great many people with transaxles (including us), and we've not had any issues with teh synchros with them.

Sorry for the long, wordy reply. From a "tehcnical" perspective, the big difference is that the feature sizes are orders of magnitude different, and ours is designed to protect in prolonged use (road course, ovals, etc.), whereas theirs I think is designed to protect in very short durations (drag racing). We have had a couple of guys who drag race Shelbys use ours, and they've been very happy with it, though. In those cases, the feedback is only qualified, unlike the other applications where the results are quantified (longer component life, temperature drops, increased load carrying capability, increased film strength - there are lot of things on our website that show a lot of that).

 

[PhillipM]

Bah, I wonder if they'd let me get hold of some for evaluation, I do a lot of damper tuning for safari buggies so long stroke, high impact and high heat stuff (and a lot of oil, I've got some in at the minute that take 2 litres each!) the damper oil is critical for us, and with those big shafts and plain bearings (and a lot of time the dampers are laid over and taking side thrust to get the necessary travel) there can be a lot of unwanted friction, wear is a big issue for some setups.

 

[A_Harman]

Thanks 67King,
This gives me some things to think about.