Mobil 102 filter

[CATERHAM]

I've used various oil filters in my Vauxhall/Cosworth engined Caterham in the past including Quaker State (Purolator) QS31614, Fram PH3614 and NAPA 51348 and the maximum cold oil pressure was consistently 90 psi at elevated rev's.
When I switched to the Mobil 102 filter my maximum OP topped out at 84 psi.
I'm not concerned about it since my OP is always below that level once the oil is up to temperature but I am curious as to the reason why.
Any ideas?

 

[Sawdusted]

Relief valve set to open a little earlier in the mobil filter.

 

[OVERKILL]

Is the filter before or after the oil pressure sending unit?

 

[CATERHAM]

Thanks Sawdusted, which is what I surmised.
With that being the case, the filter relief valve will open before the oil pump by-pass valve does resulting in partially unfiltered oil by-passing the filter when the oil is cold at higher rev's.

Can't say I like that.
I'll switch back to one of the other filters with a higher relief setting in the future.

 

[Jim Allen]

Good question above. It the sender is before, then the filter could change the reading a little. Possibly more media could result in less DP.

Also, as sawdusted said, it could be the bypass valve setting (assuming it uses one in the filter). If you knew what the DP is with each filter, and you know the bypass setting, you could predict when it starts to crack. If the setting on the M1 is lower than the other filters, that might be your answer.

The M1 is a 99% @ 25 um filter, which is tighter than the other filters you've used. It could be that more restriction with cold oil is opening the bypass.

Lotsa possibilities here to investigate.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Is the filter before or after the oil pressure sending unit?

I'm pretty sure it's before although I'll have to check.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Is the filter before or after the oil pressure sending unit?

I'm pretty sure it's before although I'll have to check.


OK, because if you visualize the function of your oil circuit:

Scenario A:

Pump w/relief ----- Sender ---- Filter w/bypass ---- Engine

In the above scenario, the measured resistance as observed by the sending unit posed by the engine is quite literally "filtered" through the filter. So if the filter is able to offer more restriction than the engine and creates enough of a differential to open the bypass valve, you will have say 90PSI regulated by the pump relief on the filter side of the circuit, and whatever the resultant pressure is on the other side of the media downstream factoring in the differential event, which could be 80PSI.

However, in this scenario:

Scenario B:

Pump w/relief ----- Filter w/bypass ----- Sender ----- Engine

You are observing system pressure AFTER the filter has made its impact, so if we retain the same numbers as above for the sake of simplicity, the filter is seeing 90PSI regulated by the relief on the pump, but due to its inability to flow the volume it's seeing, there is a differential and a bypass event is occurring, resulting in an observed pressure downstream of 80psi.


So if you have scenario A, the Mobil filter is likely flowing MORE oil than your other filters. However, if you are Scenario B, that means it is posing a greater restriction and you are likely experiencing a bypass event.

 

[Jim Allen]

Well explained!

 

[CATERHAM]

Thanks OVERKILL.

The sensor is on the opposite side of the block to the oil pump/filter so it looks like scenario B is at play here.

Fortunately I'm running a light ultra high VI 0W-20 so I can use about 2,500 rpm before by-pass occurs on a cold engine.
Still I need about 10 minutes of running time before I can rev the engine much more than that and avoid by-pass.
And I need oil temp's to rise to about 70C before maximum rev's can be used an avoid by-pass. That can take a good 20 minutes or more in colder weather.

I have an unused M1 102 filter I bought in the States at AP I think; it lists for $17.50 incl tax up here. I can get 3 less restrictive Purolator filters for that price.
Now I just have to think of away of returning it to a Cdn retailer for exchange with a US bar code?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Thanks OVERKILL.

The sensor is on the opposite side of the block to the oil pump/filter so it looks like scenario B is at play here.

Fortunately I'm running a light ultra high VI 0W-20 so I can use about 2,500 rpm before by-pass occurs on a cold engine.
Still I need about 10 minutes of running time before I can rev the engine much more than that and avoid by-pass.
And I need oil temp's to rise to about 70C before maximum rev's can be used an avoid by-pass. That can take a good 20 minutes or more in colder weather.

I have an unused M1 102 filter I bought in the States at AP I think; it lists for $17.50 incl tax up here. I can get 3 less restrictive Purolator filters for that price.
Now I just have to think of away of returning it to a Cdn retailer for exchange with a US bar code?


Curious, but what is the Purolator part number for your filter?

 

[CATERHAM]

The Purolator filter I'm referring to is sold under the QuakerState brand and it's USA made. The number is QS3614 and the Cdn Tire part # is 73102 86139.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
The Purolator filter I'm referring to is sold under the QuakerState brand and it's USA made. The number is QS3614 and the Cdn Tire part # is 73102 86139.


OK, Fleetguard is LF3335, and Donaldson is P550335. I was hoping there was a glass media version of the filter but it appears neither of those two make one.

Have you tried the AMSOIL filter?

 

[CATERHAM]

Nope I haven't tried an AMSOIL filter.
You suspect it is less restrictive than M1 while providing a lower micro filtering capacity to the other filters I've mentioned?

Is the filtering ability of Purolator's Pure One any better than their Quaker State filter?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Nope I haven't tried an AMSOIL filter.
You suspect it is less restrictive than M1 while providing a lower micro filtering capacity to the other filters I've mentioned?

Is the filtering ability of Purolator's Pure One any better than their Quaker State filter?


Yup, that's one of the big advantages of the thicker glass media: more flow.

Though I must say I prefer the feel of the Donaldson/Fleetguard glass media, as it is more dense than the version AMSOIL is using and I assume probably flows a bit better.

Another option would be the Royal Purple filter, which should be very similar assuming they make one for your application.

Actually, there are a number of glass media filters in addition to the ones I've mentioned: Fram Ultra, Purolator Synthetic, WIX something...etc. All of which are probably better flowing than the QS filter you've been using or the M1 filter you are currently using.

 

[OVERKILL]

AMSOIL filter is EA15K51, PM me if you want one.

 

[CATERHAM]

Okay, so one of the glass media filters I'll try next.

Fram Ultra is readily available and lists for $13.49 at Cdn Tire.
The WIX premium filter is called XP which I presume is the glass media type you were referring to? I can check that out.
The RP 10-2835 filter is my size, so I can check the price of that as well.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
AMSOIL filter is EA15K51, PM me if you want one.


Will do.
And yes that's the size for my application.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I've used various oil filters in my Vauxhall/Cosworth engined Caterham in the past including Quaker State (Purolator) QS31614, Fram PH3614 and NAPA 51348 and the maximum cold oil pressure was consistently 90 psi at elevated rev's.
When I switched to the Mobil 102 filter my maximum OP topped out at 84 psi.
I'm not concerned about it since my OP is always below that level once the oil is up to temperature but I am curious as to the reason why.
Any ideas?


If the oil pump is in pressure relief when you are seeing this high oil pressure with cold oil, then you are seeing the difference in delta-p across the filter. So if that's the case, then the Mobil 1 is 6 PSID more restrictive than those other oil filters.

Of course, you have to be careful because if the oil temp is somewhat different when doing all these comparisons, than that could be part of the difference seen too. If you don't have an actual oil temperature gauge, then you're guessing that the oil temp/viscosity was the same every time you saw 90 psi ... but that might not really be the case.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Fram Ultra is readily available and lists for $13.49 at Cdn Tire.

If a Partsource is as convenient for you as a CT, go to the Partsource. Their regular price on the Fram Ultra is $1 cheaper than CT for some reason, at least out here. Walmart now has the Purolator Synthetic for around $11, if you weren't aware, and I think the Bosch Premium is rolled back to around $6 or $7 depending on the part number. That one may use the same media as the Pureone, but don't quote me on that.

 

[cp3]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
If you don't have an actual oil temperature gauge

I'm sorry but this line here is too funny if you've read CATERHAM's post in the PCMO section.

Interesting observation for sure. Be sure to keep us posted! I for one would love to see what the Ultra gets you.