Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy
As a lessee, you'll never experience this feeling
Making payments until you're dead is the American way.
As a lessee, you'll never experience this feeling
Making payments until you're dead is the American way.
Leasing vs. Buying. What is your side?
- Thread starter lawman1909
- Start date
- Status
Well you will die happy knowing you spent every penny looking good over the years.
Image is everything now or days especially in the USA.
Image is everything now or days especially in the USA.
Originally Posted By: CBR.worm
We leased a car once, there is definitely some appeal in a long term rental where you give the car back at the end of the term. If you want to have a new car every few years and don't drive a lot, it is possible to get a decent deal on cars that don't depreciate tremendously - or at least a deal comparable to buying a new car and then trading it in after two to three years.
If that doesn't match your usage profile a lease probably isn't ideal.
We tried it about 15 years ago and most likely won't do it again.
And why do you WANT a new car every few years if you don't drive a lot?
We leased a car once, there is definitely some appeal in a long term rental where you give the car back at the end of the term. If you want to have a new car every few years and don't drive a lot, it is possible to get a decent deal on cars that don't depreciate tremendously - or at least a deal comparable to buying a new car and then trading it in after two to three years.
If that doesn't match your usage profile a lease probably isn't ideal.
We tried it about 15 years ago and most likely won't do it again.
And why do you WANT a new car every few years if you don't drive a lot?
With what I wanted with it, all 3 dealerships were right in the ballpark of 27.5-28k. The one I leased with everything I wanted was listed at that particular dealership much less than the others. I can only assume it is b/c it was from a dealership in PA, not MD. Maybe they had more stock?
Perpetual debt is the best way for the banks to make money even when the interest rates are historically the lowest. Makes for good slaves in this free country. All they have to do is dangle some overpriced junk at 80% off on blck Friday and the slaves will trip over themselves and dig themselves a deeper hole.
Really? I am a young guy, with what many consider a "Soccer mom" car. Oh yeah, I am reallllyyy looking to impress... *sigh
Lease then buy is what works for me. I wanted to keep my money in my bank, and with the payments I have, and then buying it at the end, ill be making out good. But I can see how leasing drives people into the ground. Just so happens I am not one of those.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Buy for me. I'd rather have something to show for after making payments for 3 years. I'd rather not leave the lot without something to drive, or start the payment cycle over again from day one. I also don't like the idea of being restricted with a 25 cent/mile fee if I go over the miles allotted in the lease agreement.
I handled lease returns for a few months at a Honda dealer. It was amazing how many people parked their cars months before the lease was up because they went over the mileage and didn't want to get banged for a quarter a mile to drive. Then there were the people who wanted to get out early, or buy their lease only to find they'd get a better deal buying the same car they had off the used car lot because it was cheaper than what buying their lease would cost.
I have a friend who trades in his car every three years. He works it so he has a $350/month payment. If he's under 36K miles his trade is worth more, if he's over 36K miles he gets a bit less but he isn't beat up for 25 cents a mile in penalty miles. He's been doing that for many years now. He trades his cars is before it needs brakes, shocks, tires, etc.
Those excess miles and wear and tear fees are just a stick used to beat people into reupping into a NEW lease. Why lease a Camry, for example, part of the value of which is a car that will go 150K easily. No leasing company entity is so GENEROUS that THEY are going to eat the "penalty miles" and nicks and scratch fees, ect, just because they LIKE you. They will get that dough from you one way or another. I know from personal experience that the "buy out" people with excess miles and/or dings and scratches are offered to purchase the leased car ends up costing them more than a similar car in BETTER shape on the dealer's used lot. A good friend was willling to work with me to sell his well cared for turn in, I knew he had cared for it and it was at least 15% over priced despite the lease company not having to do ANYTHING with the car but turn over the keys. THere's NO free lunch in the business. BTW there's a property tax in my state on cars, anyone who thinks the leasing company is going to eat THAt is, well, mistaken. If there has been any drop in lease costs on the "same" car it's because of very low interest rates, which also apply to BUYING one.
Buy for me. I'd rather have something to show for after making payments for 3 years. I'd rather not leave the lot without something to drive, or start the payment cycle over again from day one. I also don't like the idea of being restricted with a 25 cent/mile fee if I go over the miles allotted in the lease agreement.
I handled lease returns for a few months at a Honda dealer. It was amazing how many people parked their cars months before the lease was up because they went over the mileage and didn't want to get banged for a quarter a mile to drive. Then there were the people who wanted to get out early, or buy their lease only to find they'd get a better deal buying the same car they had off the used car lot because it was cheaper than what buying their lease would cost.
I have a friend who trades in his car every three years. He works it so he has a $350/month payment. If he's under 36K miles his trade is worth more, if he's over 36K miles he gets a bit less but he isn't beat up for 25 cents a mile in penalty miles. He's been doing that for many years now. He trades his cars is before it needs brakes, shocks, tires, etc.
Those excess miles and wear and tear fees are just a stick used to beat people into reupping into a NEW lease. Why lease a Camry, for example, part of the value of which is a car that will go 150K easily. No leasing company entity is so GENEROUS that THEY are going to eat the "penalty miles" and nicks and scratch fees, ect, just because they LIKE you. They will get that dough from you one way or another. I know from personal experience that the "buy out" people with excess miles and/or dings and scratches are offered to purchase the leased car ends up costing them more than a similar car in BETTER shape on the dealer's used lot. A good friend was willling to work with me to sell his well cared for turn in, I knew he had cared for it and it was at least 15% over priced despite the lease company not having to do ANYTHING with the car but turn over the keys. THere's NO free lunch in the business. BTW there's a property tax in my state on cars, anyone who thinks the leasing company is going to eat THAt is, well, mistaken. If there has been any drop in lease costs on the "same" car it's because of very low interest rates, which also apply to BUYING one.
Last edited:
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: lawman1909
With all my cases, adding up EVERY penny I spent, I saved a few hundred to a thousand dollars by leasing, then buying with cash.
I'd be interested in seeing your full math on this.
+1 This makes zero sense to me. Even the best negotiation on cars that barely depreciate (say some bare bones honda) and with low mileage caps still dont make sense...
If you do the math on the "money factor" youll see that it is way higher than any reasonable new car loan, let alone the manufacturer incentive ones.
I get it that if youre a careful driver, and dont wear tires fast, dont get cars dirty, dinged and dented, that it is possible to return them without penalty... and Ill bet that if youre renting again with the same dealer or family of dealerships, to make the deal, they may overlook more. But they are still making money someplace.
At the end of the day, its really as simple as this...
A dealer that sells a car to a buyer, cash, third party financed, or even manufacturer financed, had some upfront funds on the line for the car, but as soon as it is driven off the lot, it is somebody else's issue.
A dealer that leases a car still has retained interest and ownership in that car, even if there is some relief via the manufactuer's financing and leasing arm. Why? Because somebody associated with the dealer or manufactuer still owns that car throughout the lease period, and then has to get it back and resell it. Now, sometimes there is more profit in used cars than new ones, but a lease isnt "buying" a trade-in at below market value. Everything was decided before. So now they have something that may be a good or bad sale, at best they can CPO it for some premium, at worst, auction it and (hopefully) break even.
There are more touches, more risk, in a lease. That's why the interest rate (MF) on a lease is higher, and why it must be more expensive. Even if the sale of a car is the loss leader portion, as theyre hoping to make money on long term service and maintenance, there are jus too many unknowns for a leased car, so the risk/reward needs to be adjusted in the favor of the vehicle owner who is taking a risk.
It is false economy to think that a lease is cheaper, or that it cost less than ownership, even if a half-decent loan (which I dont advocate) is taken out.
Originally Posted By: lawman1909
With all my cases, adding up EVERY penny I spent, I saved a few hundred to a thousand dollars by leasing, then buying with cash.
I'd be interested in seeing your full math on this.
+1 This makes zero sense to me. Even the best negotiation on cars that barely depreciate (say some bare bones honda) and with low mileage caps still dont make sense...
If you do the math on the "money factor" youll see that it is way higher than any reasonable new car loan, let alone the manufacturer incentive ones.
I get it that if youre a careful driver, and dont wear tires fast, dont get cars dirty, dinged and dented, that it is possible to return them without penalty... and Ill bet that if youre renting again with the same dealer or family of dealerships, to make the deal, they may overlook more. But they are still making money someplace.
At the end of the day, its really as simple as this...
A dealer that sells a car to a buyer, cash, third party financed, or even manufacturer financed, had some upfront funds on the line for the car, but as soon as it is driven off the lot, it is somebody else's issue.
A dealer that leases a car still has retained interest and ownership in that car, even if there is some relief via the manufactuer's financing and leasing arm. Why? Because somebody associated with the dealer or manufactuer still owns that car throughout the lease period, and then has to get it back and resell it. Now, sometimes there is more profit in used cars than new ones, but a lease isnt "buying" a trade-in at below market value. Everything was decided before. So now they have something that may be a good or bad sale, at best they can CPO it for some premium, at worst, auction it and (hopefully) break even.
There are more touches, more risk, in a lease. That's why the interest rate (MF) on a lease is higher, and why it must be more expensive. Even if the sale of a car is the loss leader portion, as theyre hoping to make money on long term service and maintenance, there are jus too many unknowns for a leased car, so the risk/reward needs to be adjusted in the favor of the vehicle owner who is taking a risk.
It is false economy to think that a lease is cheaper, or that it cost less than ownership, even if a half-decent loan (which I dont advocate) is taken out.
The only way i see a lease working out, is if you can deduct the car as a business expense. Real estate, physicians etc. Now if you can deduct the lease, and then a family member buys it at the end of the lease that is not bad. They get a car that they know was taken care of and how it was driven.
Originally Posted By: lawman1909
MSRP on my vehicle with the 3 extra conveniences such as front hood protector, etc. I purchased = $26,991.32
Total savings is $1,431.32
Who pays MSRP on a car? Maybe something high end like a Porsche, Lambo, Ferrari, etc. But not something most of us drive. MAYBE on "high end" models like GT500, Corvette, etc. but even then there may be a leftover somewhere....
MSRP on my vehicle with the 3 extra conveniences such as front hood protector, etc. I purchased = $26,991.32
Total savings is $1,431.32
Who pays MSRP on a car? Maybe something high end like a Porsche, Lambo, Ferrari, etc. But not something most of us drive. MAYBE on "high end" models like GT500, Corvette, etc. but even then there may be a leftover somewhere....
I think a lot of people here would benefit from listening to Dave Ramsey on the radio . I may not make a lot of money but when I do retire I will be as debt free as one can be. I say that because there always will be living expenses , taxes ,utilities ,food, etc.
Originally Posted By: supton
I paid msrp on the three new cars I bought, and asking price on the truck. Negotiating does not run in my blood.
Why not use Edmunds / Costco / BJ's car buying service ?
I know a guy just bought a Camry SE $3000 under sticker price without any fuss or haggles using Edmunds.
I paid msrp on the three new cars I bought, and asking price on the truck. Negotiating does not run in my blood.
Why not use Edmunds / Costco / BJ's car buying service ?
I know a guy just bought a Camry SE $3000 under sticker price without any fuss or haggles using Edmunds.
or Truecar.
As always....
JHZR2 gives very good advice.
JHZR2 gives very good advice.
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Originally Posted By: supton
I paid msrp on the three new cars I bought, and asking price on the truck. Negotiating does not run in my blood.
Why not use Edmunds / Costco / BJ's car buying service ?
I know a guy just bought a Camry SE $3000 under sticker price without any fuss or haggles using Edmunds.
I try not to buy that often. Although it does seem to be every five years now.
The Saturn, well no haggle there. The Jetta, not sure I could have gotten far. My Camry, now that I should have, but as a stripper I doubt I could have gotten much off. And the truck, probably should have, but it seemed like an ok price to begin with.
The Jetta and Camry are kinda rare birds, desirable to some, and basically optioned how we wanted them. Actually all of our vehicles were, that does not help.
Originally Posted By: supton
I paid msrp on the three new cars I bought, and asking price on the truck. Negotiating does not run in my blood.
Why not use Edmunds / Costco / BJ's car buying service ?
I know a guy just bought a Camry SE $3000 under sticker price without any fuss or haggles using Edmunds.
I try not to buy that often. Although it does seem to be every five years now.
The Saturn, well no haggle there. The Jetta, not sure I could have gotten far. My Camry, now that I should have, but as a stripper I doubt I could have gotten much off. And the truck, probably should have, but it seemed like an ok price to begin with.
The Jetta and Camry are kinda rare birds, desirable to some, and basically optioned how we wanted them. Actually all of our vehicles were, that does not help.
I actually did no negotiation on our Subaru Legacy was offered at invoice - $2000 over phone with rebate brand new. My prior WRX was the same deal invoice - $1000 rebate offered over phone. I just waited till model year changes and took what they had.
I did not even ask they just assumed I guess.
My advice on car buying is internet/phone works well.
I did not even ask they just assumed I guess.
My advice on car buying is internet/phone works well.
I see the appeal of a lease for some but I put way too many miles on my car a year for a lease to make sense.
Leasing to me a lease makes the most sense in cases where you want to drive a luxury car that is very expensive to repair or you are not the mechanically inclined type who just wants a reliable problem free vehicle every 3 years.
At the same time I hate the notion of a perpetual car payment that is never ending. There is a nice feeling that comes with buying a car in cash or paying off after a few years. Driving a reliable semi-new vehicle that is paid off is a great feeling.
Leasing to me a lease makes the most sense in cases where you want to drive a luxury car that is very expensive to repair or you are not the mechanically inclined type who just wants a reliable problem free vehicle every 3 years.
At the same time I hate the notion of a perpetual car payment that is never ending. There is a nice feeling that comes with buying a car in cash or paying off after a few years. Driving a reliable semi-new vehicle that is paid off is a great feeling.
I checked into leasing a Buick Verano, back when I still had the Park Avenue and before the Regal came along. The low payments sounded attractive -- but then, in my benighted state anyway, there was the insurance matter. My ins. co. at the time, AAA, told me I'd have to maintain full coverage not only on the leased car, but on the older car as well, if I kept both. (Not that I was planning that, but I asked, just to be thorough.)
Anyway I scrapped the idea, and am glad I did. My current refinanced payments on the Regal are lower than the lease payments would have been, and I plan to pay it off and drive payment free for a few years. Not possible with leasing.
Anyway I scrapped the idea, and am glad I did. My current refinanced payments on the Regal are lower than the lease payments would have been, and I plan to pay it off and drive payment free for a few years. Not possible with leasing.
- Status
