Jeepers Creepers! (Jeep Patriot)

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Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I had a 2011 Patriot 4WD FDII w/ 2.4L and it was a great little vehicle. Excellent MPG, roomy even for my fat butt, and no problems to speak of. Had it for 3 years and took a lot of long road trips/vacations with it. I would buy one again in a heart beat. I sold it in 2014 because I always bought a new car every 2-3 years and the new Cherokee was out and I wanted to try one of those.

Most commonly reported issues with the Patriot are front suspension issues( cheap and easy to fix if you run into that ), sunroof leaks( I had a sunroof and not one drop ever leaked even when going through a high pressure car wash - issue is the drain tubes get kinked during assembly or blocked layer with dirt and debris ), and the CVT( I had a CVT and it was fine ). Those are really the three common things with the vehicle that I read about in my years on the Patriot boards. Most models come with a 6spd AT now though so the CVT is avoided in most cases.

The only other "issue" people would complain about quite often is the MPG with the FDII Off Road option. I guess people didn't bother to look at the MPG rating and see that w/ FDII the MPG really takes a hit. It is a real and substantial hit too and from what I saw the MPG rating was overly optimistic and hard for those owners to reach. You should ONLY get the FDII option if you will do a lot of real off roading. Otherwise stick with the FDI if you get a 4WD.

I loved the MPG of my 4WD FDI Patriot though. Conservative drivers can far exceed the MPG rating in FWD and 4WD FDI with ease. I would get as much as 34 MPG highway on trips and always averaged 30 MPG+ for the entire trip. Normal mixed driving netted me low 20's. Another area I felt the Patriot excelled in was bad weather. That thing was a little tank in the snow. It would go through anything I asked it to.

It did everything I wanted it to do and then some. I was very happy with what I got vs. what I paid. Only thing it really struggled with was towing my boat. Even though my boat @ 1700lbs was under the 2000lbs max towing capacity of the vehicle( with tow group which is a MUST )it was about as much as the vehicle could really handle. 2000lbs is not some underrated government agency mandated "safety limit" purposely set low to protect us from our selves. It is a real world max weight the vehicle can handle. If you are going to tow make sure the weight of the towed item( include trailer and all stuff in it )does not exceed 2000lbs!! 1500-1700 is better.

Hope this rambling helps. Haven't had one for a few years and I remembered things as I was typing.



It helps bunches!
cool.gif
Thank you for the info....


daves87rs;

just noticed that I said I had an FDI and FDII in my initial post to you. Sorry about the typo. I had the FDI. Just so it is clear.
 
Originally Posted By: atikovi
Bought a FWD '12 5-speed stick with 115K a few months ago and have put a few thou miles on it. Personally think it's a nice small SUV overall. It has the smaller 2.0 but it feels smooth as a BMW and easily gets over 30 mpg at 70 mph. It has a tow package and I've hauled 2,200 pounds for 350 miles on the highway and still got 25 mpg. It's seems to be put together pretty well with no squeaks or rattles. I'd probably stay away from the CVT if buying used and out of warranty though.


Just FYI/FWIW even with the tow package a Patriot/Compass with the 2.0L has a max tow capacity of just 1000lbs. The tow package does not increase the tow weight it just helps to protect the drivetrain if you will tow with a 2.0L which is very weakly powered.

The only Patriot/Compass models (US) that can tow 2000lbs are 2.4L models with the tow package. Lots of dealers screw that up and tell people add the tow package and it is always 2000lbs and that is wrong. Even some Jeep literature is worded confusing to the point you might think that too. However, it is just 1000lbs for ALL 2.0L models. Tow package or not. This has been verified multiple times through the Patriot forums and contact directly with Jeep.

Also, many people get confused by the tow ratings for the 2.0L diesel Patriot available outside the US which has like a 3500 lbs tow capacity. That has no bearing on the 2.0L gas models sold here.

I strongly urge you NOT to tow that much with a 2.0L Patriot. It is way over what is safe and reasonable for the vehicle. You are asking too much of it and long term it will cause major mechanical issues. Also, should you get in an accident while towing 1200+lbs over what the vehicle is rated for it will be bad news for you if you are at fault.
 
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Originally Posted By: atikovi
Bought a FWD '12 5-speed stick with 115K a few months ago and have put a few thou miles on it. Personally think it's a nice small SUV overall. It has the smaller 2.0 but it feels smooth as a BMW and easily gets over 30 mpg at 70 mph. It has a tow package and I've hauled 2,200 pounds for 350 miles on the highway and still got 25 mpg. It's seems to be put together pretty well with no squeaks or rattles. I'd probably stay away from the CVT if buying used and out of warranty though.


Doesn't the 2.0 only come with the CVT? Know the 6 speed was paired with the 2.4...


Nope.

It really depends on which trim level you get as to what trans is standard/optional with the 2.0L. Options are the 5spd manual and CVT for the 2.0L models. Last I knew none of the 2.0L's could be optioned with the 6spd.
 
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI

It really depends on which trim level you get as to what trans is standard/optional with the 2.0L. Options are the 5spd manual and CVT for the 2.0L models. Last I knew none of the 2.0L's could be optioned with the 6spd.



That's exactly what I found when browsing the local selection of Patriots in 2015. In fact, in the sea of them on the lots, I only saw 2 of the 2.0L, CVT models and no 5spds.
 
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: atikovi
Bought a FWD '12 5-speed stick with 115K a few months ago and have put a few thou miles on it. Personally think it's a nice small SUV overall. It has the smaller 2.0 but it feels smooth as a BMW and easily gets over 30 mpg at 70 mph. It has a tow package and I've hauled 2,200 pounds for 350 miles on the highway and still got 25 mpg. It's seems to be put together pretty well with no squeaks or rattles. I'd probably stay away from the CVT if buying used and out of warranty though.


Just FYI/FWIW even with the tow package a Patriot/Compass with the 2.0L has a max tow capacity of just 1000lbs. The tow package does not increase the tow weight it just helps to protect the drivetrain if you will tow with a 2.0L which is very weakly powered.

The only Patriot/Compass models (US) that can tow 2000lbs are 2.4L models with the tow package. Lots of dealers screw that up and tell people add the tow package and it is always 2000lbs and that is wrong. Even some Jeep literature is worded confusing to the point you might think that too. However, it is just 1000lbs for ALL 2.0L models. Tow package or not. This has been verified multiple times through the Patriot forums and contact directly with Jeep.

Also, many people get confused by the tow ratings for the 2.0L diesel Patriot available outside the US which has like a 3500 lbs tow capacity. That has no bearing on the 2.0L gas models sold here.

I strongly urge you NOT to tow that much with a 2.0L Patriot. It is way over what is safe and reasonable for the vehicle. You are asking too much of it and long term it will cause major mechanical issues. Also, should you get in an accident while towing 1200+lbs over what the vehicle is rated for it will be bad news for you if you are at fault.


Tow ratings are downgraded for U.S. models of all makes for liability reasons, doesn't mean the vehicle can't handle it. So what is the difference between that diesel rated at 3,500 pounds, the 2.4 rated at 2,000 pounds and my 2.0 at 1,000 pounds? I think maybe 12 more H.P. in the 2.4? They still weight about the same, have the same brakes, wheels, tires, steering etc. For once or twice a year 2,200 pound tows, it won't strain it enough to wear anything out faster. Heck, I've towed a lot more on a Ranger 4 cylinder 5-speed pickup, albeit for just a short distance and I'm pretty sure it had even less HP.

large.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: JTK
That's exactly what I found when browsing the local selection of Patriots in 2015. In fact, in the sea of them on the lots, I only saw 2 of the 2.0L, CVT models and no 5spds.


Think the later model sticks are 6-speeds.
 
The manuals are still 5 speed. The automatics are a 6 speed "auto stick". I was wrong about the CVTs - they can be bought with the 2wd version still.

Yikes! I can buy my exact same model $1500 LESS than what I paid 3 years ago. Rebates were limited back then due to new model introduction (6 speed auto tranny) and I could not wait any longer to replace my old Caravan.

I went to the Patriot Site, did the "build" and then dealer inventory search and found the following model(s) at $17,060 out the door (Tax, delivery, incl.). There are currently over $3,500 rebates in the Lake States area. This one is 150 miles away from me.

Base Sport 2wd model with upgrade of: 2.4L engine, 6 speed auto tranny, and air conditioning:
http://www.griegermotors.com/new/Jeep/2016-Jeep-Patriot-ab0f9c430a0e0ae77ffe1c9a4b3ff182.htm

Hmmmmmm....if I could find someone dumb enough to buy mine at $14K, then spend $3k to get a new one???? That would be about $83/month ownership cost over the past 3 years, exclusive of insurance and maintenance.
 
As far as I can tell, in most states the law you can tow up around 3k lbs with out brakes with any vehicle, if you are not doing for commercial reasons.
I always wondered why there are so many trailers up here with a 3500lb axle and no brakes, even though every manufacturer recommends trailer brakes for towing over 1000lbs. So I was talked with mechanic that inspects and certifies trailers here and he said legally you don't need brakes below 3k lbs here, even for commercial purposes. That's the law. What Jeep recommends is good to know, but in terms of the highway traffic act, its not important.
 
Originally Posted By: atikovi
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: atikovi
Bought a FWD '12 5-speed stick with 115K a few months ago and have put a few thou miles on it. Personally think it's a nice small SUV overall. It has the smaller 2.0 but it feels smooth as a BMW and easily gets over 30 mpg at 70 mph. It has a tow package and I've hauled 2,200 pounds for 350 miles on the highway and still got 25 mpg. It's seems to be put together pretty well with no squeaks or rattles. I'd probably stay away from the CVT if buying used and out of warranty though.


Just FYI/FWIW even with the tow package a Patriot/Compass with the 2.0L has a max tow capacity of just 1000lbs. The tow package does not increase the tow weight it just helps to protect the drivetrain if you will tow with a 2.0L which is very weakly powered.

The only Patriot/Compass models (US) that can tow 2000lbs are 2.4L models with the tow package. Lots of dealers screw that up and tell people add the tow package and it is always 2000lbs and that is wrong. Even some Jeep literature is worded confusing to the point you might think that too. However, it is just 1000lbs for ALL 2.0L models. Tow package or not. This has been verified multiple times through the Patriot forums and contact directly with Jeep.

Also, many people get confused by the tow ratings for the 2.0L diesel Patriot available outside the US which has like a 3500 lbs tow capacity. That has no bearing on the 2.0L gas models sold here.

I strongly urge you NOT to tow that much with a 2.0L Patriot. It is way over what is safe and reasonable for the vehicle. You are asking too much of it and long term it will cause major mechanical issues. Also, should you get in an accident while towing 1200+lbs over what the vehicle is rated for it will be bad news for you if you are at fault.


Tow ratings are downgraded for U.S. models of all makes for liability reasons, doesn't mean the vehicle can't handle it. So what is the difference between that diesel rated at 3,500 pounds, the 2.4 rated at 2,000 pounds and my 2.0 at 1,000 pounds? I think maybe 12 more H.P. in the 2.4? They still weight about the same, have the same brakes, wheels, tires, steering etc. For once or twice a year 2,200 pound tows, it won't strain it enough to wear anything out faster. Heck, I've towed a lot more on a Ranger 4 cylinder 5-speed pickup, albeit for just a short distance and I'm pretty sure it had even less HP.


NOTE - this will be a long response as I am trying to answer your questions and also provide actual facts/data for you. Please bear with me.

I understand tow ratings are "usually" downgraded for vehicles in the US. However, that is not always the case and the Patriot/Compass is one such vehicle( see info below ). Even if the towing capacity has been downgraded for the US models it doesn't make my cautionary points invalid. Rather than rehash the US tow ratings and whether you should exceed them or not I am going to stick simply to factual info here to respond to your post and hopefully get you to see that I might just be right here.

As far as engine differences go. While HP helps when towing once you get going( to keep it at speed )it is the torque( FTLBS )that is most important because that is what gets you up and going. Diesel engines produce their power in a lower RPM band vs. gas engines as well which is a significant advantage when towing. That is why diesel engines are always rated so high for towing because they have so much torque and it, as well as the HP they produce, is available at low to mid RPM ranges which is where you operate while towing and need the power.

The 2.0L and 2.4L gas engines used in the Patriot/Compass are pretty anemic and neither is a towing beast; here or abroad. The 2.0L gas engine is really hampered when towing by it's very low power spec's and very high peak RPM power points. You can even say the same for the 2.4L really although it is better than the 2.0L. The 2.4L may only have 14 more HP but it has 24 more FTLBS which is significant for towing in a smaller vehicle like that with an overall low towing capacity. The extra power of the 2.4L is also available at lower RPM levels than the 2.0L so it helps further with increased towing ability. I am not even touching on transmission and drive gearing which also enters into it.

As I said though, neither is a beast for towing. 2000lbs might even be too much IMO even with the 2.4L. I think 1500 or so would be better based on my experience towing with this vehicle and the 2.4L. FWD and FDI 4WD models anyway. Maybe the 4WD FDII's with their significant increase in gearing would help towing 2000lbs. What I do know is, when I towed my boat with my 2.4L 4WD FDI Patriot, it handled things much better during fishing season when I was hauling around 1500lbs vs. waterfowl season with the blind and all the gear which pushed it up around 1700lbs+. I definitely noticed the difference.

Here are the actual power and RPM band figures for the 3 engines...

2.0L Gas = 158 HP( @ 6400 RPM ) & 141 FTLBS( @ 5000 RPM )
2.4L Gas = 172 HP( @ 6000 RPM ) & 165 FTLBS( @ 4400 RPM )
2.0L Turbo Diesel = 103kW( approx 138 HP @ 4000 RPM ) & 310Nm( approx 230 FTLBS @ 2500 RPM )

So while the 2.0L diesel has 3 HP less( 3 HP is not really a factor )than the 2.0L gas engine, it has a whopping 89 FTLBS increase in torque. That is a HUGE difference and it means the diesel should out pull the gasser with ease. Gear it to really take advantage of the extra torque and it will do it even easier. In a nutshell, FTLBS gets you moving from a stop and HP helps you accelerate and go faster once already in motion. More or less but for this discussion it is close enough.

I am not trying to be a jerk here and I hope it isn't coming off that way. Just don't want you, or those who read this thread, to think towing 2200lbs with a 2.0L Patriot/Compass is a wise move even if just for a short distance. You can't even claim the numbers are set low for the US market either in this case because they are not ( see below ). Your call obviously just trying to help and offer backup info to illustrate I am not just making this up or trying to stir the pot. I am being serious and trying to help.

cheers3.gif


EDIT - I finally found some towing figures for the Patriot/Compass outside the US from Jeep( for gas models the diesel rating is from a 3rd party Australian towing guide as Jeep doesn't make the diesel model anymore ). For the 2.0L and 2.4L gas powered models the tow capacities are pretty much spot on with the US models so we can't say they are being set low here for safety reasons like it does happen a lot of times with bigger vehicles. As you can see the diesel model has a significant boost in tow capacity...

2.0L Gas w/o trailer brakes = 450 KG ( approx 992 lbs )
2.0L Gas w/ trailer brakes = 454KG ( approx 1001 lbs )

2.4L Gas w/o trailer brakes = 750KG ( approx 1654 lbs )
2.4L Gas w/ trailer brakes = 907KG ( approx 1999 lbs )

2.0L Turbo Diesel w or w/o trailer brakes = 1500KG ( approx 3307 lbs )
 
Understand your points which seem to stress the capability to tow with the different powertrain choices. All I know is when I towed 2,200 pounds up I95 from SC to DC the truck never felt excessively strained (which in itself is a relative thing from someone who drives 70hp Smart cars and Honda Insights) and on the few hills I did down shift to 4th to keep a steady 50 mph. Towing is not something I have to do frequently but wouldn't hesitate to use the Patriot again. Was told years ago by a guy at a uhaul place that most vehicles can tow up to their own weight without modifications like weight distribution hitches or trailer brakes. He may have been exaggerating a bit or only talking about vehicles with a real frame.
 
Originally Posted By: jimbodude44
I've put 120k on my 2007 Dodge Caliber CVT and it hasn't given me any problems



The newer CVTs are not problem prone. They are just a technology that is disliked here on BITOG. Kinda like Chinese tires and so forth.
 
Originally Posted By: CKN
The newer CVTs are not problem prone. They are just a technology that is disliked here on BITOG.


Why the hate for CVTs? Other than reliability worries, all the CVT cars I've had were quite pleasant. Smooth and seamless acceleration. The only POS CVT I can remember was the Subaru Justy.
 
I guess I don't understand all the talk about engines, power and torque as it applies to towing with one of these vehicles. To me, the ability to stop is just as important. Are the brakes designed to stop an additional 2000lbs?
 
Originally Posted By: atikovi
Originally Posted By: CKN
The newer CVTs are not problem prone. They are just a technology that is disliked here on BITOG.


Why the hate for CVTs? Other than reliability worries, all the CVT cars I've had were quite pleasant. Smooth and seamless acceleration. The only POS CVT I can remember was the Subaru Justy.



There are things on this site that don't make sense, that's one of them. Will see what the attitude will be when the 8 and 10 (plus) speed automatics start coming out. Those things will be shifting all the time. I suspect the average age of autos that people own on here will be even higher......
 
Originally Posted By: JTK
I guess I don't understand all the talk about engines, power and torque as it applies to towing with one of these vehicles. To me, the ability to stop is just as important. Are the brakes designed to stop an additional 2000lbs?


Brakes play into it certainly. On the Patriot/Compass however the brakes are the same across models. At least here in the US. I am not sure if the exports w/ the diesel get larger ones? For the sake of the discussion about towing capacity between US models with the different engines, on the Patriot./Compass, brakes are not a factor. On other vehicles that does come into play at times.

FWIW the brakes themselves seem capable of stopping the vehicle even if towing up to the US max of 2000lbs. Mine did anyway at least up to around 1700lbs. You can also use the transmission and downshift to help as well if needed. Where it lacked IMO was power to tow that much.

Here is another factor when towing with a Patriot/Compass. The weight of the load you are towing pushing you on downhill grades. The vehicle only weighs 3200lbs( that is rounding up actually ). If you have a 2000lbs load behind you that is like 2/3 of the vehicle weight sitting back there pushing as you go downhill. It is a LOT!

I had to be especially careful when towing my boat during waterfowl season if there was any kind of snow, ice, slush, etc...( towing during heavy rains with a lot of water on the road would be the same )because all that extra weight behind me pushing would cause me to break free when going down hills. I actually came up with a different route to go back and forth to the marsh when towing during waterfowl season if the weather was bad that was mostly flat. A couple starting to slip episodes and then one time suddenly finding myself and the trailer sliding sideways down a hill in the snow was enough. Better tires and a flatter route followed immediately!
 
Okay, so we had one. Wife's DD. A silver one loaded, Limited, I think. Had that horrible CVT in it, AWD, leather seats, sun roof. Best part of it was a not-too-bad stereo system. Of course it needed that sub-woofer to cover up the HORRIBLE FREAKING ROAD NOISE... I cannot over-emphasise that last sentence. The road noise was terribly bad. My old POS Mercury Lynx was comparably a paragon of solitude twenty-odd years before this abomination.

We dumped it for a crazy-good deal on a Grand Caravan when Chrysler was going through the fits back during it's belly-up phase in 08 - 09. Good bloody riddance.

Do not buy it. Get a Mazda CX-3.

John.
 
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
The manuals are still 5 speed. The automatics are a 6 speed "auto stick". I was wrong about the CVTs - they can be bought with the 2wd version still.

Yikes! I can buy my exact same model $1500 LESS than what I paid 3 years ago. Rebates were limited back then due to new model introduction (6 speed auto tranny) and I could not wait any longer to replace my old Caravan.

I went to the Patriot Site, did the "build" and then dealer inventory search and found the following model(s) at $17,060 out the door (Tax, delivery, incl.). There are currently over $3,500 rebates in the Lake States area. This one is 150 miles away from me.

Base Sport 2wd model with upgrade of: 2.4L engine, 6 speed auto tranny, and air conditioning:
http://www.griegermotors.com/new/Jeep/2016-Jeep-Patriot-ab0f9c430a0e0ae77ffe1c9a4b3ff182.htm

Hmmmmmm....if I could find someone dumb enough to buy mine at $14K, then spend $3k to get a new one???? That would be about $83/month ownership cost over the past 3 years, exclusive of insurance and maintenance.


Nice! I'd almost tell ya to go a bit up to the Sport SE....they throw in a few nice things that work too...gives it a bit more of a "classic" look I think...
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Nice! I'd almost tell ya to go a bit up to the Sport SE....they throw in a few nice things that work too...gives it a bit more of a "classic" look I think...
smile.gif


Excellent example of why I put guarded significance on other's judgements about my choices. You put looks over, what I consider, substance. The SE package(if I looked at it correctly) is $2K more for appearance and convenience upgrades, while it retains an inferior drive train IMO. I prefer the bigger engine and 6 speed auto tranny over the 2.0L/CVT combo. I prefer steel wheels. I choose to use my flip phone even though a smartphone is affordable to me.

I find the Ben Franklin quote humorous also. For minimalists, like me, the key is adequate quality at low cost = value. Here's some of my own examples:

My 30 yr. old, $500 USA Craftsman tools are genuinely adequate. A $2K -$4K equivalent set of Wright, Proto, or Snap On would have provided much lower value and the same use results.

My 40 year old Mossberg shotgun ($150) still works well and has been a much greater value than my similar vintage Browning that I'm afraid to take into the field beyond shooting clay targets.

My $140 RedWing boots last as long as the $280 pair I once bought. And, I don't worry nearly as much on the cheaper pair when they get ripped by a chainsaw or equipment edge. Would a $400+ pair of Whites give me more value?

However, to each his own. I respect other's choice to buy what they like. And yes, shame on me for being defensive about my choices. I must be mentally deficient.
 
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