They could always rebadge a Scion and charge more for it...
Idea for a new Porsche?
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Originally Posted By: rshaw125
I would rather have a used 3 series than a new 1 series. Porsche has it's entry level car for people who can't afford a 911 it's called the Boxster.
Anything more cheapens the brand.
Why is everyone assuming this would be a cheaper car than a Boxster? According to what I'm reading, this car would probably come out a bit more expensive...
It's a different kind of car, not a cheaper one.
I would rather have a used 3 series than a new 1 series. Porsche has it's entry level car for people who can't afford a 911 it's called the Boxster.
Anything more cheapens the brand.
Why is everyone assuming this would be a cheaper car than a Boxster? According to what I'm reading, this car would probably come out a bit more expensive...
It's a different kind of car, not a cheaper one.
If Porsche wants to diversify, they need to start with their design language. You can't make any segment vehicle look like a classic frog coupe design. How ridiculous does the Cayenne look? If you want to make SUVs, design them like SUVs. If you want to stay a specialty sports car company, do that. But this stagnant 'frog' sports coupe design language combined with segment deviation that they know nothing about (thanks daddy VAG for the Toureg parts) makes for some confusing and hideous results imo. Now trying to compete in the econo market? Isn't that what Volkswagen is for? What could Porsche as a brand possibly offer an 'econobox'?
I don't like little cars but the 135I with a manual is just a blast to drive, its a little roller skate!
People in this country are under the assumption that to be expensive cars have to be large, so they will never sell here.
But I can absolutely see why someone would buy a loaded 135I or the 1M. They are perfect city cars for starters.
Sadly because it costs as much as a 3 series to produce, they are going to ruin the 1 series and make it a [censored] FWD cheap BMW for people who just want the badge and can't afford a good one....like the lame CLA.
People in this country are under the assumption that to be expensive cars have to be large, so they will never sell here.
But I can absolutely see why someone would buy a loaded 135I or the 1M. They are perfect city cars for starters.
Sadly because it costs as much as a 3 series to produce, they are going to ruin the 1 series and make it a [censored] FWD cheap BMW for people who just want the badge and can't afford a good one....like the lame CLA.
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Originally Posted By: d00df00d
The 1-Series's back seats will accommodate adults. It's not something you'd like to cram people into for hours on end, but it works -- unlike, say, the "back seats" in a Porsche 911.
I think this could be clearly distinct from the Boxster and Cayman. More comfortable and practical with a more accessible performance envelope, but with less sharpness and sportiness.
I was talking with my Dad a while back and we concluded that there really isn't a no-compromise upgrade for his 128i -- at any price. Even given unlimited money, anything else he could buy would either be bigger and heavier or lose the back seat. If Porsche were to build a car like this, it'd be a slam-dunk for my Dad.
In fact, I'm having trouble thinking of a person in my life for whom some version of this car would not be ideal...
Get the 1 series with the big motor...1M.
The 1-Series's back seats will accommodate adults. It's not something you'd like to cram people into for hours on end, but it works -- unlike, say, the "back seats" in a Porsche 911.
I think this could be clearly distinct from the Boxster and Cayman. More comfortable and practical with a more accessible performance envelope, but with less sharpness and sportiness.
I was talking with my Dad a while back and we concluded that there really isn't a no-compromise upgrade for his 128i -- at any price. Even given unlimited money, anything else he could buy would either be bigger and heavier or lose the back seat. If Porsche were to build a car like this, it'd be a slam-dunk for my Dad.
In fact, I'm having trouble thinking of a person in my life for whom some version of this car would not be ideal...
Get the 1 series with the big motor...1M.
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For my Dad, the 1M doesn't do anything his 128i doesn't do except cost more to buy and maintain.
For me, the N54 is a deal-breaker.
A friend of mine is building his 128i in a way that is close to ideal, IMO: headers, a few bits off an E9x 330i, and a tune put him close to 300hp NA, and soon to come are M3 suspension bits and differential. About the only thing I could imagine wanting more would be a 1M with an S65 swap...
For me, the N54 is a deal-breaker.
A friend of mine is building his 128i in a way that is close to ideal, IMO: headers, a few bits off an E9x 330i, and a tune put him close to 300hp NA, and soon to come are M3 suspension bits and differential. About the only thing I could imagine wanting more would be a 1M with an S65 swap...
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
People in this country are under the assumption that to be expensive cars have to be large, so they will never sell here.
Sad but probably true. It's all over this thread...
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
it costs as much as a 3 series to produce
...Seriously?
People in this country are under the assumption that to be expensive cars have to be large, so they will never sell here.
Sad but probably true. It's all over this thread...
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
it costs as much as a 3 series to produce
...Seriously?
Porsche made a less expensive model and called the 914. Did the 914 ever become a great success?
The 914 was never really a sales success in the US and were marketed as VW-Porsche in some markets. But then again, there was a lot more competition then. MG, Triumph, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Datsun, Opel, and Volkswagen's own Karmann Ghia.
I mean let's look at the Karmann Ghia. Italian design, handmade by Karmann coachworks, similar exhaust note to the 914 and has the engine in the back like the 912 instead of in the middle like the X1/9. A lot of buyers probably bypassed the 914 and bought a Karmann Ghia.
Lot less competition now.
I mean let's look at the Karmann Ghia. Italian design, handmade by Karmann coachworks, similar exhaust note to the 914 and has the engine in the back like the 912 instead of in the middle like the X1/9. A lot of buyers probably bypassed the 914 and bought a Karmann Ghia.
Lot less competition now.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
A turbocharger achieves power at the expense of responsiveness. Seems completely the opposite of what the BRZ was designed for...
However it does not take away from the underlying power if done correctly. I felt the 335i albeit heavy had no take away. The expense there is reliability of an over complicated engine.
I loved the BRZ especially on the twistys however as a daily driver in traffic the power curve was lacking a bit.
Subaru will come out with a "special edition" likely built by STI division.
A turbocharger achieves power at the expense of responsiveness. Seems completely the opposite of what the BRZ was designed for...
However it does not take away from the underlying power if done correctly. I felt the 335i albeit heavy had no take away. The expense there is reliability of an over complicated engine.
I loved the BRZ especially on the twistys however as a daily driver in traffic the power curve was lacking a bit.
Subaru will come out with a "special edition" likely built by STI division.
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Porsche made a less expensive model and called the 914. Did the 914 ever become a great success?
Maybe you can help me with something.
Everyone's hammering at this idea of a car that lowballs Porsche's current offerings. I can't find a single mention of that anywhere in the Facebook post.
I must be blind or something. If you can point me to the part you read that makes you think a 914 is a valid comparison, I'd really appreciate it. I'll take it to my doctor so he can give me some advice on why I missed it.
Porsche made a less expensive model and called the 914. Did the 914 ever become a great success?
Maybe you can help me with something.
Everyone's hammering at this idea of a car that lowballs Porsche's current offerings. I can't find a single mention of that anywhere in the Facebook post.
I must be blind or something. If you can point me to the part you read that makes you think a 914 is a valid comparison, I'd really appreciate it. I'll take it to my doctor so he can give me some advice on why I missed it.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Porsche made a less expensive model and called the 914. Did the 914 ever become a great success?
Maybe you can help me with something.
Everyone's hammering at this idea of a car that lowballs Porsche's current offerings. I can't find a single mention of that anywhere in the Facebook post.
I must be blind or something. If you can point me to the part you read that makes you think a 914 is a valid comparison, I'd really appreciate it. I'll take it to my doctor so he can give me some advice on why I missed it.
Natural deduction.
They will be cutting their own throats if a 6-cylinder 1-series size car comes in at or around the price of a Panamera V6. So it has to be less than that. I would wager significantly less if they actually want to sell it.
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Porsche made a less expensive model and called the 914. Did the 914 ever become a great success?
Maybe you can help me with something.
Everyone's hammering at this idea of a car that lowballs Porsche's current offerings. I can't find a single mention of that anywhere in the Facebook post.
I must be blind or something. If you can point me to the part you read that makes you think a 914 is a valid comparison, I'd really appreciate it. I'll take it to my doctor so he can give me some advice on why I missed it.
Natural deduction.
They will be cutting their own throats if a 6-cylinder 1-series size car comes in at or around the price of a Panamera V6. So it has to be less than that. I would wager significantly less if they actually want to sell it.
The Panamera V6 is around the middle of the current starting MSRP range. The 914 was rock bottom in its time. There's quite a lot of ground in between.
If Porsche made a compact sports sedan worth buying in the current market, I'd imagine it'd start at least where the Boxster does and go way up from there...
If Porsche made a compact sports sedan worth buying in the current market, I'd imagine it'd start at least where the Boxster does and go way up from there...
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
FWD cheap BMW for people who just want the badge and can't afford a good one....like the lame CLA.
Obviously you haven't seen the new AMG CLA AWD in Car and Driver.
FWD cheap BMW for people who just want the badge and can't afford a good one....like the lame CLA.
Obviously you haven't seen the new AMG CLA AWD in Car and Driver.
If I understand correctly, the CLA relies in part on its EPS to counter the effects of torque steer....
I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but there are simply certain traits that are inaccessible to cars with transversely mounted engines with forced induction and a significant proportion of power fed to the front wheels. There are some workarounds, but there is no substitute for the real thing.
I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but there are simply certain traits that are inaccessible to cars with transversely mounted engines with forced induction and a significant proportion of power fed to the front wheels. There are some workarounds, but there is no substitute for the real thing.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
The Panamera V6 is around the middle of the current starting MSRP range. The 914 was rock bottom in its time. There's quite a lot of ground in between.
...
True.
The 914/4 had to be cheap. It had a lot of competition. You couldn't sell it for significantly more than an MGB or Fiat X1/9 let alone 6 cyls like the 280Z or TR6
The Panamera V6 is around the middle of the current starting MSRP range. The 914 was rock bottom in its time. There's quite a lot of ground in between.
...
True.
The 914/4 had to be cheap. It had a lot of competition. You couldn't sell it for significantly more than an MGB or Fiat X1/9 let alone 6 cyls like the 280Z or TR6
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
If I understand correctly, the CLA relies in part on its EPS to counter the effects of torque steer....
I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but there are simply certain traits that are inaccessible to cars with transversely mounted engines with forced induction and a significant proportion of power fed to the front wheels. There are some workarounds, but there is no substitute for the real thing.
The standard CLA is not even comparable to the AMG version. I am in complete agreement that it is impossible to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
For review:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-mercedes-benz-cla45-amg-first-drive-review
If I understand correctly, the CLA relies in part on its EPS to counter the effects of torque steer....
I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but there are simply certain traits that are inaccessible to cars with transversely mounted engines with forced induction and a significant proportion of power fed to the front wheels. There are some workarounds, but there is no substitute for the real thing.
The standard CLA is not even comparable to the AMG version. I am in complete agreement that it is impossible to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
For review:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-mercedes-benz-cla45-amg-first-drive-review
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
FWD cheap BMW for people who just want the badge and can't afford a good one....like the lame CLA.
Obviously you haven't seen the new AMG CLA AWD in Car and Driver.
Even AMG can't fix it, its still a FWD car. They probably had no choice but to make it AWD to combat the torque steer.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
FWD cheap BMW for people who just want the badge and can't afford a good one....like the lame CLA.
Obviously you haven't seen the new AMG CLA AWD in Car and Driver.
Even AMG can't fix it, its still a FWD car. They probably had no choice but to make it AWD to combat the torque steer.
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Originally Posted By: rshaw125
I would rather have a used 3 series than a new 1 series. Porsche has it's entry level car for people who can't afford a 911 it's called the Boxster.
Anything more cheapens the brand.
This "Poor Man's Porsche" nonsense will just never end, will it?
The Boxster/Cayman are built as a completely different beast than the 911, with the engine in the middle versus being all the way in the rear, and with them being mid engined vehicles, they have much better driving dynamics than the tail heavy 911's.
They are not the same car just cheaper, with less power, they are different cars entirely, from the front seats back, anyway.
I'm not sure why anyone would want Porsche to make a compact coupe/sedan vehicle, but I could see Porsche/VW/Audi wanting to steal sales from BMW. That's why they made the Panamera, anyway. I still think that car is hideous.
Regardless, Porsche and BMW make hideous amounts of money on every vehicle they sell.
If they want to create another new vehicle in order to increase their yearly sales totals, as they have proven in the past, they will, and people will buy them (Boxster, Cayenne, Cayman, Panamera).
And I test drove the 128i several years ago.
The exterior, to me, is visually bland.
But then again, I love the looks of the Boxster/Cayman, so what do I know?
And I own a Mazda CX-5, but my current dream car is the Maserati GranTurismo, so maybe you should ignore anything I have to say about exterior styling.
Anyway, back to the 128i.
I though the engine and transmission were good.
I though the interior was nice, with the exception of the rear seats. No bolstering or grab handles for anyone in the back to hold onto when you decide to get serious through the corners with a full car, makes those passengers in the back seats very unhappy with your antics behind the wheel.
I LOVED the front seats on the Sport trim. The base trim seats were very nice, but I LOVED the Sport trim seats.
The base handling felt exactly like a Camry.
The sport handling package felt like a true German car.
To me, it was a shame you had to buy an option in order to get the German handling that you thought you were going to get when you were buying the car.
I had my 2011 RX-8 at the time, so I was comparing the 128i against it.
I felt my RX-8 was a better car back then, and I still feel the same today.
BC.
I would rather have a used 3 series than a new 1 series. Porsche has it's entry level car for people who can't afford a 911 it's called the Boxster.
Anything more cheapens the brand.
This "Poor Man's Porsche" nonsense will just never end, will it?
The Boxster/Cayman are built as a completely different beast than the 911, with the engine in the middle versus being all the way in the rear, and with them being mid engined vehicles, they have much better driving dynamics than the tail heavy 911's.
They are not the same car just cheaper, with less power, they are different cars entirely, from the front seats back, anyway.
I'm not sure why anyone would want Porsche to make a compact coupe/sedan vehicle, but I could see Porsche/VW/Audi wanting to steal sales from BMW. That's why they made the Panamera, anyway. I still think that car is hideous.
Regardless, Porsche and BMW make hideous amounts of money on every vehicle they sell.
If they want to create another new vehicle in order to increase their yearly sales totals, as they have proven in the past, they will, and people will buy them (Boxster, Cayenne, Cayman, Panamera).
And I test drove the 128i several years ago.
The exterior, to me, is visually bland.
But then again, I love the looks of the Boxster/Cayman, so what do I know?
And I own a Mazda CX-5, but my current dream car is the Maserati GranTurismo, so maybe you should ignore anything I have to say about exterior styling.
Anyway, back to the 128i.
I though the engine and transmission were good.
I though the interior was nice, with the exception of the rear seats. No bolstering or grab handles for anyone in the back to hold onto when you decide to get serious through the corners with a full car, makes those passengers in the back seats very unhappy with your antics behind the wheel.
I LOVED the front seats on the Sport trim. The base trim seats were very nice, but I LOVED the Sport trim seats.
The base handling felt exactly like a Camry.
The sport handling package felt like a true German car.
To me, it was a shame you had to buy an option in order to get the German handling that you thought you were going to get when you were buying the car.
I had my 2011 RX-8 at the time, so I was comparing the 128i against it.
I felt my RX-8 was a better car back then, and I still feel the same today.
BC.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
FWD cheap BMW for people who just want the badge and can't afford a good one....like the lame CLA.
Obviously you haven't seen the new AMG CLA AWD in Car and Driver.
Even AMG can't fix it, its still a FWD car. They probably had no choice but to make it AWD to combat the torque steer.
Even though it has been written up as the "best handling AMG model EVER"? I love the way your bias is so selective. It also has the highest output available in any 4 cylinder production car.
But it's not your grand daddy's big Merc sedan, is it?
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
FWD cheap BMW for people who just want the badge and can't afford a good one....like the lame CLA.
Obviously you haven't seen the new AMG CLA AWD in Car and Driver.
Even AMG can't fix it, its still a FWD car. They probably had no choice but to make it AWD to combat the torque steer.
Even though it has been written up as the "best handling AMG model EVER"? I love the way your bias is so selective. It also has the highest output available in any 4 cylinder production car.
But it's not your grand daddy's big Merc sedan, is it?
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