I have a question but oil

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I have tried M1 0W-40 and car felt heavy on acceleration and mpg went down about 1-2 mpg at least. Well it's not just me my friend did same thing on E90 and noticed same thing.
About manufacture specification, manufacture specified 5W-30 BMW oil only or it could added other above post mentioned oils brands.
But you know BMW oil is a blend oil, so it's bad for your engine, and we are all know (BMW owners), valve gaskets and other oil gaskets failed around 50,000 miles, when any Japanese car last a life of the car.
So do those gaskets poor quality ? or is the engine working in the hotter condition then should be? I know one thing LL01 spec is just for long life oil and nothing to do with anything else. I do my oil changes every 5,000 -7,000 miles anyway, so what a reason to use it?
Did you read this?
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles

I think guy did tremendous job and it was posted on this website early . Somebody said using M1 5W-30 is murdering your engine, well Mr. I tell you using BMW oil is misunderstanding conception of lubrication. I know a guy he has AMG C55 and from day one he is using only M1 5W-30 and never had a single problem and he is driving like a maniac.
Well don't be offensive, I just asked simple question, I know more success stories with using M1 5W-30 then BMW oil or Castrol for this matter.
It's very surprising I posted here after long, long break and I remember one guy was here saying bad BMW oil and research he did, now look like new members (most) and they have not educated themselves yet.
 
Originally Posted By: phlfly
I have tried M1 0W-40 and car felt heavy on acceleration and mpg went down about 1-2 mpg at least.


You did not lose 1 or 2 mpg going from an oil with an HTHS of 3.1 to one of 3.6 (which, unless it was really recently, would have been the version of M1 0w40 you would have run).

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Well it's not just me my friend did same thing on E90 and noticed same thing.


Did what? went from M1 0w40 to M1 5w30? or from BMW 5w30 to M1 5w30??

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About manufacture specification, manufacture specified 5W-30 BMW oil only or it could added other above post mentioned oils brands.


No, the manufacturer specifies you use an oil meeting LL-01, which requires the oil has a minimum HTHS of 3.5cP. It doesn't mention a brand or grade. Oils meeting LL-01 are typically 0w30, 5w30, 0w40 or 5w40.

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But you know BMW oil is a blend oil, so it's bad for your engine,


????????????

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and we are all know (BMW owners), valve gaskets and other oil gaskets failed around 50,000 miles, when any Japanese car last a life of the car.


I've done two sets of E46 valve cover gaskets in the last 6 months. One on my sister's 03, the other on my wife's 00. Both had the original gaskets with 130,000Km and 245,000Km on them respectively (80,000 miles and 152,000 miles). The valve cover gaskets on my M5 are original. It was dealer serviced until I bought it, so it would have had BMW (Castrol) 5w30 in it.

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So do those gaskets poor quality ?


Yes. They use rubber when they should use silicone. This is why the Ford gaskets don't get hard and leak. The old Windsor valve cover gaskets were cork and would get hard and leak. The only vehicle that kept the Windsor past the introduction of the Modular was the Explorer, which got improved silicone valve cover gaskets that never leak. The same style of gasket is used in the Modulars IIRC.

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or is the engine working in the hotter condition then should be?


No, it is just poor choice of gasket material that eventually hardens and subsequently allows leaks to occur.

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I know one thing LL01 spec is just for long life oil and nothing to do with anything else.


LL-01 spec's a minimum HTHS of 3.5cP for starters. Immediately, that means that your statement above is wrong. BMW does extensive engine and lubricant testing. It isn't just about the oil being a long life product. That is but one component.

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I do my oil changes every 5,000 -7,000 miles anyway, so what a reason to use it?


Because your engine was designed to run on an oil with a minimum HTHS of 3.5cP.

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Did you read this?
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles


We've all read it. What you need to take away from that is that his cars are not tracked and don't see elevated oil temperatures. If they did, he would use a heavier lubricant. He's also a multi-millionaire, so if he breaks an engine, he can afford a new one.

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I think guy did tremendous job and it was posted on this website early .


He has an interesting theory. But his theory doesn't negate the fact that BMW spec's an oil with a minimum HTHS of 3.5cP for your application.

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Somebody said using M1 5W-30 is murdering your engine, well Mr. I tell you using BMW oil is misunderstanding conception of lubrication. I know a guy he has AMG C55 and from day one he is using only M1 5W-30 and never had a single problem and he is driving like a maniac.


No, not understanding that your engine is designed to operate on a lubricant that must be thicker than X at 150C is misunderstanding the concept of lubrication.

Unless your buddy has torn his engine down and measured the components, you have no idea if the engine has suffered premature wear or not. Tossing out an anecdote doesn't suddenly make your opinion "right" in the face of opposing everything the manufacturer has specified here.

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Well don't be offensive,


Offended perhaps?

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I just asked simple question, I know more success stories with using M1 5W-30 then BMW oil or Castrol for this matter.


What would you say the percentage is of BMW vehicles run on the North American M1 5w30 vs being run on the dealer fill of Castrol/BMW 5w30? So considering this, what do you think the odds are that your claim here actually reflects reality?
whistle.gif


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It's very surprising I posted here after long, long break and I remember one guy was here saying bad BMW oil and research he did, now look like new members (most) and they have not educated themselves yet.


What kind of solid (non anecdotal) proof do we have that the actual BMW branded Castrol 5w30 (not just generic non LL-01 Castrol 5w30) is an inferior product? I mean, one of the most highly revered oils on this site, Castrol "GC" 0w30 is an LL-01 lubricant.....
 
I have different information becasue there is no such 5W-30 Castrol LL01 anywhere in the world, it's only german Castrol LL01 0W-30.
 
Originally Posted By: phlfly
I have different information becasue there is no such 5W-30 Castrol LL01 anywhere in the world, it's only german Castrol LL01 0W-30.


The BMW oil, sold by the BMW dealer, is a 5w30 that carries the LL-01 certification. It is made by Castrol.
 
It's fact BMW oil 5W-30 with 3.5 drop after 1,000 miles to 3.2 and at end of life 3.0 at the max. I read a report here who did this. So you don't need to be naive that BMW is best, I know people on bimmerfest doing valve guides job after using only BMW oil from day one. Good luck with this.
it's nothing to do with gasket quality because they don't leak in Germany, so I guess German are not using BMW oil but just Castrol and this 0W-30 Castrol only thatis cert with LL01.
Engine designed to 3.5cp is just because BMW is thinking you will take to track like M-series recommended to use 10W-60 Castrol.

Do you know how BMW improve problem with 4.4L engine, since it was leaking everywhere, overheating, so lead to failed oil and cooling gaskets, well they installed a huge size oil radiator for 4.8L engine. So the heat is nothing do with ....all problems?
Whenever, just leave it where is it. I will use what common sense tells me, as I'm engineer.
 
Originally Posted By: phlfly
I have different information becasue there is no such 5W-30 Castrol LL01 anywhere in the world, it's only german Castrol LL01 0W-30.

You had until recently BMW 5W30 LL-01 on a market. It is updated to BMW LL-04.
It is called Castrol Professional OE.
I still do not understand why BMW oil is not good? It says it is 100% Full synthetic: http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E60-550i-N62_4.8L/Maintenance/Engine/Oil/ES10318/
 
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Because LL04 is not A3/B3 requirements anymore. It's C3. So whenever BMW is putting there, it's not coming from Castrol at all.

http://castroledge.de/motorenole/0w-40-a3/b4

Also did you see ever 100% Synthetic oil for 5.5 buck per quart. Well only blend in this price range. The true Synthetic is about 10 or more per quart.
 
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Originally Posted By: phlfly
It's fact BMW oil 5W-30 with 3.5 drop after 1,000 miles to 3.2 and at end of life 3.0 at the max.


According to who? Who do you know that has the equipment to measure HTHS?

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I read a report here who did this.


I've been here a pretty long time and don't remember this.

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So you don't need to be naive that BMW is best, I know people on bimmerfest doing valve guides job after using only BMW oil from day one. Good luck with this.


So the oil is magically responsible for bad valve guides now?

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it's nothing to do with gasket quality because they don't leak in Germany, so I guess German are not using BMW oil but just Castrol and this 0W-30 Castrol only thatis cert with LL01.


The dealerships in Germany use the same LL-01 BMW 5w30 that we use here (made by Castrol). So my question to you would be then what oil are the people who are having problems on THIS side of the pond really using for oil? I mean, I KNOW what I'm putting in our bimmers, M1 0w40.

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Engine designed to 3.5cp is just because BMW is thinking you will take to track like M-series recommended to use 10W-60 Castrol.


No, the 10w60 has an even higher HTHS. And while the "high" HTHS of 3.5cP is due to how the cars are designed to be driven, it is still a design characteristic of the engines, one you can't simply gloss over and ignore because you don't want to abide by it.

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Do you know how BMW improve problem with 4.4L engine, since it was leaking everywhere, overheating, so lead to failed oil and cooling gaskets, well they installed a huge size oil radiator for 4.8L engine. So the heat is nothing do with ....all problems?
Whenever, just leave it where is it. I will use what common sense tells me, as I'm engineer.


The 4.4L? You mean the M62, the non high performance version of the S62 in my M5? No, I have no idea what you are talking about..........

Do you honestly think that other engine manufacturers just magically have engines that run colder or that by dropping down to an oil with a 3.1cP HTHS that you reduce your temperatures by some wild margin that negates these issues? It is a materials selection issue with regards to gasket material. And while some oils may be less "gasket friendly" than others, it is the JOB of the engine designer to choose a gasket material that isn't going to flake out when used with their spec lubricant.
 
Originally Posted By: phlfly
The packg doesn't have that made by Castrol, while injector cleaner has one where it said it made by Chevron.
Please this is link for you LL01 is 0W-40 only.
LL04 is not good for usage in US due the ethanol in gasoline.

http://castroledge.de/motorenole/0w-40-a3/b4


BMW has a lubricant contract with Castrol. Castrol provides the BMW lubricants. Therefore, the BMW-branded 5w30 (LL-01) that you buy from the BMW dealership is made by Castrol.

And no, I would NOT expect the BMW lubricant to show on Castrol's website. This isn't re-bottled Castrol Edge, it is an oil made specifically for BMW.
 
Originally Posted By: phlfly
It's fact BMW oil 5W-30 with 3.5 drop after 1,000 miles to 3.2 and at end of life 3.0 at the max. I read a report here who did this. So you don't need to be naive that BMW is best, I know people on bimmerfest doing valve guides job after using only BMW oil from day one. Good luck with this.
it's nothing to do with gasket quality because they don't leak in Germany, so I guess German are not using BMW oil but just Castrol and this 0W-30 Castrol only thatis cert with LL01.
Engine designed to 3.5cp is just because BMW is thinking you will take to track like M-series recommended to use 10W-60 Castrol.

Do you know how BMW improve problem with 4.4L engine, since it was leaking everywhere, overheating, so lead to failed oil and cooling gaskets, well they installed a huge size oil radiator for 4.8L engine. So the heat is nothing do with ....all problems?
Whenever, just leave it where is it. I will use what common sense tells me, as I'm engineer.

Wow. Let me know what you are "engineer" so I can steer clear.
Or do you mean trains?
Your comments to me are bordering absurd. The ferrarichat thread is a member here. Perhaps you should read up on the follow up on his oil experimentation.
And worn valve guides could be from owners jumping in their cars and going full throttle,not allowing the oil and engine to get to temp.
You don't know how those cars with failed valve seals are driven,nor if it's even a real issue or Internet hype.
But since your an engineer,and know more about your car than the people who built I say have at er.
Start a thread with all your oil changes and if you don't mind educating us please submit the used oil analysis' of each run of oil. I'm sure all of us can benefit with all the knowledge gained from your extensive research and testing.
Looking forward to your thread. I'll take you off ignore once I see some data,until then I'd rather not be enlightened with your dribble.
Good day sir
 
You can just read Bimmerfest and 5series.com forum. It's plenty of it and please don't be nihilist on this issue. I had BMW since 2004 and gaskets leaking like crazy, and I’m in BMW CAA as well. People sick and tired to spend money on this.
Also as I said before have you ever see Synt oil for about 6 bucks and more important export from Europe? A good Synt oil is cost around 10 bucks that made is US. I guess Euro Castrol should be around 12 bucks.
BTW, to be honest we should not buy BP products at all since they destroyed Golf of Mexico, even I'm not a "Green guy".
 
Originally Posted By: phlfly
Whenever, just leave it where is it. I will use what common sense tells me, as I'm engineer.

You come on a public forum and ask a question. You get responses that collide with your personal assumptions/misconceptions, and you get offended? If you think your common sense is better, then go with it. No point asking questions on this forum. Waste of everyone's time.

As for the leaky valve cover gasket issue - it's a known BMW problem related to using inferior materials. It has nothing to do with any particular engine oil.
 
Originally Posted By: phlfly
Also as I said before have you ever see Synt oil for about 6 bucks

Yes. M1 0w-40 costs even less than that when you catch it on sale. Same goes for GC.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: phlfly
Also as I said before have you ever see Synt oil for about 6 bucks

Yes. M1 0w-40 costs even less than that when you catch it on sale. Same goes for GC.

Yep, just bought 5qt of GC and filter for $33!
 
Where I live I see a lot time GC on sale but rare Mobil 1, really once in 2 years.
I guess BP has hard time to sell their product due? May be it's not as good as Mobil?
I know one thing for fact that the engine is working quieter on Mobil 1.
 
Originally Posted By: phlfly
Where I live I see a lot time GC on sale but rare Mobil 1, really once in 2 years.
I guess BP has hard time to sell their product due? May be it's not as good as Mobil?
I know one thing for fact that the engine is working quieter on Mobil 1.

Yeah, that is the case!
 
Originally Posted By: phlfly
Where I live I see a lot time GC on sale but rare Mobil 1, really once in 2 years.
I guess BP has hard time to sell their product due? May be it's not as good as Mobil?
I know one thing for fact that the engine is working quieter on Mobil 1.


So, you're basically asking if Mobil 1 0w-30 or 5w-30 would be better for your BMW. Others have said you need oil spec'd with >3.5cp HTHS, which these are not. I agree with them that you should go with what's spec'd for your car and I add go with OEM oil filters as well. Not a single thanks from you for their time.

Castrol has oil that meets this spec, but you hate Castrol/BP because of the Gulf of Mexico mess. Mobil 1 has 5w-40 that meets this spec, but you think that Dr. Haas' theory of a thinner oil is better for your car's arteries (galleries). BMW has oil for your car but it's made by Castrol, which messed up the Gulf.

Bottom line - it's your car and money, go with what you want.
 
Originally Posted By: phlfly
Also as I said before have you ever see Synt oil for about 6 bucks and more important export from Europe? A good Synt oil is cost around 10 bucks that made is US. I guess Euro Castrol should be around 12 bucks.

BMW's 5w-30 is used by ALL BMWs except for diesels, certain very old models, and certain M cars. BMW gets it in very large quantities. Their marketing budget for it is zero. Its distribution requires little that BMW doesn't already operate. There are all kinds of reasons why the price can be low.

Moreover, the "good synthetic oils" that cost $10 per quart are all from smaller companies that don't have good economies of scale, or from companies like Motul that don't have much mainstream distribution in the US. A better comparison would be the $7-$8 synthetics on store shelves. The price difference between those products and BMW 5w-30 is easily explicable in terms of BMW undercutting the mainstream brands to help make sure their customers use the right oil.

Bottom line: Price is a horrible indication of how good an oil is.

Incidentally, BMW also sells Castrol TWS for high-RPM M cars, and that oil actually does come from Europe and cost around $12/L...
 
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