Hybrid electric water heater - anyone install one?

[92saturnsl2]

The 50 gallon water heater in my home, an all-electric Lochinvar installed in 2007 (when home was built), is nearing the end of its life. I have slowly turned up the heat dial over the last year or two and got some extra time, but lately I'm getting rather tired of taking luke warm showers. Have tried draining/flushing tank, all the tricks.

With the hybrid electric water heaters bringing a $1,750 tax credit, I'm seriously considering one. Has anyone purchased one of these? I'm one of those folks where bang for buck is the most important equation, but I'm lost in all the different brands / options. I don't mind the buy once cry once approach if I feel the money is well spent. Curious if anyone has bought a certain brand / model they like-- and if anyone has done the tax credit runaround, I'd like to know how that works too.

 

[Rand]

I really like mine.
I keep it on heat pump only mode to dehumidify my basement.
There have been about 10 posts here on them.. might want to search.

 

[ctechbob]

The 50 gallon water heater in my home, an all-electric Lochinvar installed in 2007 (when home was built), is nearing the end of its life. I have slowly turned up the heat dial over the last year or two and got some extra time, but lately I'm getting rather tired of taking luke warm showers. Have tried draining/flushing tank, all the tricks.

With the hybrid electric water heaters bringing a $1,750 tax credit, I'm seriously considering one. Has anyone purchased one of these? I'm one of those folks where bang for buck is the most important equation, but I'm lost in all the different brands / options. I don't mind the buy once cry once approach if I feel the money is well spent. Curious if anyone has bought a certain brand / model they like-- and if anyone has done the tax credit runaround, I'd like to know how that works too.

Bought one in April 22 and between the massive efficiency over a resistive heater and tax credits, it paid for itself in less than a year.

The Rheem units do have 2 pretty minor problems and both are easily fixable by a DIY'er.

The T&P valves tend to leak, and the thermistors go bad. Rheem will actually ship you a set of thermistors for free and as long as you have the space to get the top off the unit, it is less than an hour job. Mine made it about a year before it threw thermistor errors.

Install location is something you'll want to pay attention to. If your heater is in the heated space of the house, the Hybrid will be pulling heat out of that air that will need to be replaced.

Mine is in the garage, so it pulls the heat out of the outside air.

I got a $500 rebate from my power company, and $300 from the fed on last year's taxes. Both were super easy to get.

Depending on the time of year, mine is uses between 1/3 and 1/4 less power than my old resistive unit. I too have mine locked into heat pump mode, and during the extreme cold snap last year was the only time it wouldn't run the compressor and kicked over to the elements.

You can see the usage zoom up on the 23rd/24th

For reference, it takes about 4kw to heat the water back up after 1 shower on my old reistive unit, even in the cold temps, with 3 people in the house, we usually stay around 4-5kw total, whereas before that would have been anywhere from 10-15kw/day

 

[Rand]

Forgot to mention My Rheem(2nd gen?) came with house ..
it eventually rusted out due to incorrect installation... at about 7 years.

I now have an AO smith.. its even more efficient and works flawlessly.
worst thing is it takes hours to get back to temp if you use a bunch of water and keep it on heatpump only mode.
There are several other modes.

I did 3 loads of warm wash(ex large- water temp 95f)
a long shower 10min x 2.75gal/min
hosed off all the dishes
and the wife still got in a hot shower although
she had it on full hot after 10min.
Obv. it recovered by morning.
I keep it set to 148f.
In the summer the hot water capacity is almost 50% more due to warmer incoming water(reservoir)

IF it was a family of 4 I might have to keep it on hybrid vs heatpumponly.

but for upgrade from regular electric model its not even worth thinking about ... do it!
You do need a condensate drain line-- I T'ed into my furnace drain line.
.. and the wiring is farther down usually so if your old water heater had top wiring it might need extended.

 

[ctechbob]

Forgot to mention My Rheem(2nd gen?) came with house ..
it eventually rusted out due to incorrect installation... at about 7 years.

I now have an AO smith.. its even more efficient and works flawlessly.
worst thing is it takes hours to get back to temp if you use a bunch of water and keep it on heatpump only mode.
There are several other modes.

I did 3 loads of warm wash(ex large- water temp 95f)
a long shower 10min x 2.75gal/min
hosed off all the dishes
and the wife still got in a hot shower although
she had it on full hot after 10min.
Obv. it recovered by morning.
I keep it set to 148f.
In the summer the hot water capacity is almost 50% more due to warmer incoming water(reservoir)

IF it was a family of 4 I might have to keep it on hybrid vs heatpumponly.

but for upgrade from regular electric model its not even worth thinking about ... do it!
You do need a condensate drain line-- I T'ed into my furnace drain line.
.. and the wiring is farther down usually so if your old water heater had top wiring it might need extended.

Wow you keep yours set way higher than mine. I keep ours at 136.

I'd say you just have to be a little more intelligent with your usage if you're going to buy one. Just understand that you can't hammer on it all at once and expect to have good hot water, unless you're willing to pay the price for 'fast recovery'

We usually don't have any problem. We're all on our own separate schedules and they don't really overlap shower-wise, so that's usually not a concern and the clothes washer (Samsung front load) and dishwasher (Samsung) are both new enough that they don't really use enough hot water to effect anything, even running them back-to-back.

One of these days I need to finish my project of extending the intake vent up into the attic. The amount of hot air that is up there in the warmer months should jack my efficiency up even more. Might be a little less in the winter, but anytime the sun is up, it will be hotter up there than the garage.

 

[Rand]

Wow you keep yours set way higher than mine. I keep ours at 136.

Its basically my basement dehumidifier.. the hot water is free.

In the summer I did turn it down to 135f but it didn't make that big a difference.
in the winter the 148f really helps with the cold incoming water temp...
Analogy: like keeping your air compressor tank at 150psi instead of 125psi you get significantly more useable hot water.
if its set to 150f vs 125f
since less is needed to mix the cold incoming water upto shower temp etc.

I "heard" that you want to keep it over 130f to eliminate any bacteria growth.

For all that its inside the house "using heat" in the winter which isnt the best option...
my heating bill--natural gas. was the $43 connect fee I have every month and $22 worth of consumption charges.(december)

 

[92saturnsl2]

The wife and I have 4 kids, two are teens and one fast approaching, so I suspect whatever unit I buy will have to be left in hybrid mode.

I don't see the condensate drain line being an issue, the water heater is located in the center of the unfinished basement a couple feet from the furnace/central air, so it'd be easy to tie into that drain line. We plan on finishing the basement in the next year or two, but the furnace / water heater area will be turned into a utility room.

What I'm very curious about is if the $1750 tax credit applies to DIY installation. I'll have a buddy help of course who does these things for a living.

 

[ctechbob]

The wife and I have 4 kids, two are teens and one fast approaching, so I suspect whatever unit I buy will have to be left in hybrid mode.

I don't see the condensate drain line being an issue, the water heater is located in the center of the unfinished basement a couple feet from the furnace/central air, so it'd be easy to tie into that drain line. We plan on finishing the basement in the next year or two, but the furnace / water heater area will be turned into a utility room.

Well, in the summer it will be free AC/Dehumidifying for you. Just might see your heat bill go up slightly in the winter.

You can always just pump the condensate out, or over to your AC unit and have that pump, err, pump it out...double pumping so to speak. That's if you can't run another line.

 

[Rand]

The wife and I have 4 kids, two are teens and one fast approaching, so I suspect whatever unit I buy will have to be left in hybrid mode.

I don't see the condensate drain line being an issue, the water heater is located in the center of the unfinished basement a couple feet from the furnace/central air, so it'd be easy to tie into that drain line. We plan on finishing the basement in the next year or two, but the furnace / water heater area will be turned into a utility room.

Might want to upsize and get the 80gal model for max efficiency.
you can always plumb in a mixing valve so you can set it to a high temp with no danger of scalding(kids) if that is an issue.
there is no downside you can always set it to run electric mode.. if for some reason you wanted to.

They usually have a flex hose so if its within a couple feet it will reach.. just add in a T and a short vertical at the appropriate place.

 

[Snagglefoot]

The best installation is in a warm garage where there is a source of outdoor heat to efficiently heat the water with the heat pump. It will actually cool your garage. The other thing is that is does have a constant hum that some people don’t like. If its in the basement you may hear it. Try visit someone with one and hear it for yourself.

 

[ctechbob]

The best installation is in a warm garage where there is a source of outdoor heat to efficiently heat the water with the heat pump. It will actually cool your garage. The other thing is that is does have a constant hum that some people don’t like. If its in the basement you may hear it. Try visit someone with one and hear it for yourself.

Good point on the noise. I would say that it isn't quite as loud as a window AC unit.

 

[Rand]

The best installation is in a warm garage where there is a source of outdoor heat to efficiently heat the water with the heat pump. It will actually cool your garage. The other thing is that is does have a constant hum that some people don’t like. If its in the basement you may hear it. Try visit someone with one and hear it for yourself.

I agree 100% that is the best case scenario. but
the pipes could freeze in your garage... which is probably the case in KY. (certainly is here)

The noise on mine is about as loud as the furnace.. although a slightly higher pitch.. Doesnt bother me at all.

 

[billt460]

I am of the belief that the condition of your water means more than a high priced water heater does, as far as any longevity is concerned.

Hard water can kill off an expensive water heater much faster than a lower priced model will hold up with good quality water being run through it.

However $1,750 is a lot of money for a water heater kickback. Only you can determine if it's worth it. Yours seems to have lasted quite a while, (2007 to present). And 16 years for a water heater is very good... Especially with the crap they make today.

 

[oil pan 4]

The 50 gallon water heater in my home, an all-electric Lochinvar installed in 2007 (when home was built), is nearing the end of its life. I have slowly turned up the heat dial over the last year or two and got some extra time, but lately I'm getting rather tired of taking luke warm showers. Have tried draining/flushing tank, all the tricks.

With the hybrid electric water heaters bringing a $1,750 tax credit, I'm seriously considering one. Has anyone purchased one of these? I'm one of those folks where bang for buck is the most important equation, but I'm lost in all the different brands / options. I don't mind the buy once cry once approach if I feel the money is well spent. Curious if anyone has bought a certain brand / model they like-- and if anyone has done the tax credit runaround, I'd like to know how that works too.

Life ain't over till it leaks.
I drain mine and drag it outside about every 2 or 3 year and flush all the junk out of it and replace the magnesium anode. Replacing the joke plastic drain valve with a straight through 3/4'' ball valve helps a lot.
Always make sure it has a 5,500 watt heater element in the top and you should be good to go.
Those heat pump hot water heaters are almost a scam when they break no one wants to work on them.
If you like Luke warm showers get a heat pump hot water heater because if you want to take advantage of the efficiency of a heat pump you won't get great hot water.
If they were as good as they're supposed to be then they wouldn't need a bunch of tax credits to get them sold.
Hard water will kill it fast.

 

[billt460]

If they were as good as they're supposed to be then they wouldn't need a bunch of tax credits to get them sold.

Bingo, we have a winner. Just like EV's.

 

[2005jettatdi]

I installed a hybrid water heater in summer of 22. It works fine, is a little noisy and cools the garage. For the winter months I have it set on hybrid, but the rest of the year it is heat pump only. The installation is pretty simple. You need a two pole 30 amp breaker and 10/2 wire. Hire an electrician if yo do not know exactly what you are doing. In the humid monsoon weather it puts out a fair amount of condensation but is not a problem.

The tax credit is 30%, up to $2,000. So I don't know where OP gets the $1,750 tax credit. The credit is allowed for the cost of the water heater plus the cost of installation.

 

[92saturnsl2]

The tax credit makes it a no brainer, I have no interest in going back to traditional electric. I'm one of those folks where if the economics make sense (I would buy an electric car if one was affordable and not a penalty box), I go into a purchasing decision with no political irons in the fire. I'm not looking for scalding water, if these can't produce the reasonably hot water I'm looking for, I guarantee nobody would buy them. Energy efficiency has an edge over comfort in my house; my heat pump thermostat doesn't go above 66 in winter.

I have the 30 amp breaker and wiring already in place. Wiring it will be easy peasy, but I'll need an experienced friend to do the water line part of the work. It'll be parked in the basement which stays low 50's to mid 60's all year long and is currently not climate controlled. Probably not the ideal place, but eventually it'll have normal household temps once I finish the basement.

The tax credit is 30%, up to $2,000. So I don't know where OP gets the $1,750 tax credit. The credit is allowed for the cost of the water heater plus the cost of installation.

Please educate me on this. So if the cost of the water heater is $2,000, one could be eligible for a tax credit of 30% of that?

 

[CDX825]

Life ain't over till it leaks.
I drain mine and drag it outside about every 2 or 3 year and flush all the junk out of it and replace the magnesium anode. Replacing the joke plastic drain valve with a straight through 3/4'' ball valve helps a lot.
Always make sure it has a 5,500 watt heater element in the top and you should be good to go.
Those heat pump hot water heaters are almost a scam when they break no one wants to work on them.
If you like Luke warm showers get a heat pump hot water heater because if you want to take advantage of the efficiency of a heat pump you won't get great hot water.
If they were as good as they're supposed to be then they wouldn't need a bunch of tax credits to get them sold.
Hard water will kill it fast.

I don't think you understand how much heat pump technology has improved in the last 20 years. This isn't your parents heat pump from the 80s that put out luke warm air. Most of these heat pump water heaters will heat the water to 150-160 degrees if you want it to.

 

[ctechbob]

Those heat pump hot water heaters are almost a scam when they break no one wants to work on them.
If you like Luke warm showers get a heat pump hot water heater because if you want to take advantage of the efficiency of a heat pump you won't get great hot water.
If they were as good as they're supposed to be then they wouldn't need a bunch of tax credits to get them sold.

Spoken by someone who's never used one.

We have plenty of HOT water when we want it. The only downside is that recovery time can be slow. It has been absolutely no inconvenience in a household of 3. My girls certainly don't pay attention to when it runs, although I do.

Even without the tax and utility rebates it has already paid for itself in just under 2 years just in energy savings.

 

[2005jettatdi]

The tax credit makes it a no brainer, I have no interest in going back to traditional electric. I'm one of those folks where if the economics make sense (I would buy an electric car if one was affordable and not a penalty box), I go into a purchasing decision with no political irons in the fire. I'm not looking for scalding water, if these can't produce the reasonably hot water I'm looking for, I guarantee nobody would buy them. Energy efficiency has an edge over comfort in my house; my heat pump thermostat doesn't go above 66 in winter.

I have the 30 amp breaker and wiring already in place. Wiring it will be easy peasy, but I'll need an experienced friend to do the water line part of the work. It'll be parked in the basement which stays low 50's to mid 60's all year long and is currently not climate controlled. Probably not the ideal place, but eventually it'll have normal household temps once I finish the basement.



Please educate me on this. So if the cost of the water heater is $2,000, one could be eligible for a tax credit of 30% of that?

The tax credit will be $600. Form 5695.

Wiring is pretty easy for me too. It is plumbing that scares me. Still, I managed both when I installed our water heater. I pulled the gas water heater so our house is all electric now. We have solar, so it works out nicely.