Honda 5w-20, 9000 mi, 09 Honda Fit Sport

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Notes:
- This oil was from dealership. I believe it was conv or synth blend, not full synth.
- OLM was at 30% when I took the sample.
- This is the wife's car -- roughly 50% city/50% hwy driving
- Filter is the blue Honda OEM filter
- I took this sample at the change and replaced with QSUD 5w-20 and PureOne oil filter.

I welcome any comments, questions or suggestions.

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Run the QSUD for 9k and resample without draining all of the oil.

I say you take it to 5% Oil Life on the Maintenance Minder. There have been many 11k+ UOAs on Fits with great results.
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
Run the QSUD for 9k and resample without draining all of the oil.

I say you take it to 5% Oil Life on the Maintenance Minder. There have been many 11k+ UOAs on Fits with great results.



The Fit does seem easy on the oil, but I want to play it ultra-conservative at first. Going to do 3 9k OCIs to make sure everything looks good. After that I may extend past 10k and get some TBN reports as well.
 
Al is way, way too high for my liking. Some bad piston wear going on there.

Si is moderately high, could be abrasive wear....I'd cut back to 7500 and see how it looks, and check the air filter.
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Al is way, way too high for my liking. Some bad piston wear going on there.

Si is moderately high, could be abrasive wear....I'd cut back to 7500 and see how it looks, and check the air filter.


Is this a good time to admit I have a K&N air filter in this car?
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Quote:
Some bad piston wear going on there.

AFAIK this engine uses iron liners so bore wear would not cause high aluminum but high iron.

What it does have is steel backed aluminum bearings, no lead or copper.
This may be the cause of the high aluminum.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
Some bad piston wear going on there.

AFAIK this engine uses iron liners so bore wear would not cause high aluminum but high iron.

What it does have is steel backed aluminum bearings, no lead or copper.
This may be the cause of the high aluminum.


I think he was thinking piston scuffing (they would be aluminum slugs) that was the source of the Al.
 
Yep i can see that too, i thought he meant bore wear from the rings.
I think these new aluminum bearing shells are going make determining the source of aluminum a lot more difficult.

Do you know if these Honda 1.5 pistons are moly coated piston skirts?
13ppm isn't much in anyones book but its nice to know where its coming from so an oil that possibly protects those areas better could be tried for comparison.
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Al is way, way too high for my liking. Some bad piston wear going on there.

Si is moderately high, could be abrasive wear....I'd cut back to 7500 and see how it looks, and check the air filter.


Air filters get very dirty on this car....fast. I usually find them black on this car before 20k. They're also outrageously expensive at the retail level for some unknown reason, $25+ at Autozone and at the dealer.

I get them here, in a private label brand that quick lubes use:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190735322721?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
 
addyguy might be on to something. Hondas are tuned for efficiency, running as lean as safely possible.

So let's say your K&N does indeed "flow more air than a paper filter," you're only going to push it leaner on your Honda MAP-based EFI system.

There is no device that directly measures intake air mass on a Honda (AFAIK unless the newer ones are different). It's just assuming it's getting the amount of air it thinks it should be getting at any given time based on senor inputs and RPM.

The "strategy" of most modern ECUs is such that they will "adapt" and compensate for variations in A/F mixtures over the long term, to a certain percentage until a fault code gets stored and the MIL lights up. Like when a small vacuum leak slowly gets bigger over time, the ECU will compensate only so far.

BUT, short term fuel trims have very loose "tolerances" so to speak. Cruise along the highway with a really nice ($$$$) scantool hooked up to a modern car in recording mode at 65mph and blip the throttle. I've seen the instant/short term fuel trims spike to 15% (lean), or even higher for xxx milliseconds before the ECU can respond. ECU don't care. There is also a corresponding delay in the load based ignition maps. Double det. trouble, but a 16 bit ECU is typically worse than a 32 in that sense. Honda 16 or 32? Anybody know?

Typically it's no biggie on a well running engine, but you're doing that with "increased air flow" (maybe) on an already lean running EFI system that cannot directly measure airflow/mass.

On the flip side, a close friend of mine bought a 2001 civic coupe brand new and immediately installed a "hot air intake" with an open element K&N filter. That's it, no tuning at all. He drove the car up until just a couple months ago when the clutch went out, 145k on it. He sold the car for $2500, filter not cleaned or replaced ONCE its entire life, ran fine. True story.

At this point, if it were my car, I'd probably just stare at it for a little bit while smoking a cigarette, then forget about it.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Yep i can see that too, i thought he meant bore wear from the rings.
I think these new aluminum bearing shells are going make determining the source of aluminum a lot more difficult.

Do you know if these Honda 1.5 pistons are moly coated piston skirts?
13ppm isn't much in anyones book but its nice to know where its coming from so an oil that possibly protects those areas better could be tried for comparison.


http://asia.vtec.net/Engines/LSERIESG2/index.html

OOh, forged and cracked rods? That's BMW type stuff
 
Thanks for posting that. I thought i read somewhere it had some sort of a low friction coating on the piston skirts.
Aluminum rocker arms, so the spread of aluminum wear possibilities just got even wider.
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
No, but it explains a lot....some may flame me for this, but its doing damage...


How?
 
The Fit's engine is MAF-based. I've unhooked the MAF quite a bit for various things that start with taking out the airbox, such as replacing the battery or adjusting the valves. So the engine is adjusting for whatever flow the K&N is providing over stock, if any.

IIRC our Fit going similar mileage on M1 0w-20 didn't show such high aluminum. It's also running a OEM Honda air filter. I'd ditch the K&N for OEM.
 
I'm telling you, a lot of Honda engines are showing "higher" silicon levels that people are expecting. My former Fit, CR-V, Pilot, Accord, and Civic all had high silicon. I checked and rechecked the sealing of the intake system and replaced with new OE filters and still got high wear levels. I think it's just "normal".
 
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