Geniuses at GM dealer
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Originally Posted By: qship1996
Your warranty is NOT with the dealer, it is with the manufacturer- dealer has no authority to "cancel" it.
100% correct. The dealer or importer has no proven reason to cancel that warranty. If anybody had reason to cancel the warranty it would be GM over that dealers unspec'd oil.
Your warranty is NOT with the dealer, it is with the manufacturer- dealer has no authority to "cancel" it.
100% correct. The dealer or importer has no proven reason to cancel that warranty. If anybody had reason to cancel the warranty it would be GM over that dealers unspec'd oil.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
I bet by now you wish he bought a Expedition or a Navigator.
All the dealers are probably the same way.
Except Ford, Chrysler and Mercedes actually. Ford dealer uses 10W-30, Chrysler dealer uses 5W-20 or 0W-40, Mercedes dealer uses 15W-40 (mineral) and 5W-30 or 0W-40 synthetic. Everybody else uses 20W-50, although Castrol 10W-60 is at option at the BMW dealer and 15W-40 is a the Mitsubishi dealer.
Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
I bet by now you wish he bought a Expedition or a Navigator.
All the dealers are probably the same way.
Except Ford, Chrysler and Mercedes actually. Ford dealer uses 10W-30, Chrysler dealer uses 5W-20 or 0W-40, Mercedes dealer uses 15W-40 (mineral) and 5W-30 or 0W-40 synthetic. Everybody else uses 20W-50, although Castrol 10W-60 is at option at the BMW dealer and 15W-40 is a the Mitsubishi dealer.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: qship1996
Your warranty is NOT with the dealer, it is with the manufacturer- dealer has no authority to "cancel" it.
100% correct. The dealer or importer has no proven reason to cancel that warranty. If anybody had reason to cancel the warranty it would be GM over that dealers unspec'd oil.
Quick question. If you had oil-related failure during the warranty period, and GM cancelled the vehicle's warranty, I reckon the dealer would be required to provide coverage? Would this be a correct assumption?
Originally Posted By: qship1996
Your warranty is NOT with the dealer, it is with the manufacturer- dealer has no authority to "cancel" it.
100% correct. The dealer or importer has no proven reason to cancel that warranty. If anybody had reason to cancel the warranty it would be GM over that dealers unspec'd oil.
Quick question. If you had oil-related failure during the warranty period, and GM cancelled the vehicle's warranty, I reckon the dealer would be required to provide coverage? Would this be a correct assumption?
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
[I'm just wondering about the Kuwait Desert vs. USA Nevada, Arizona, Texas as far as dust is concerned? My son told me the dust in that part of the world is unreal, I don't know so I'm asking.
The GM OLM takes an educated guess, but I would imagine it can't factor in dirt ingested into an engine in a hostile desert climate. I think if I lived in any area where dust was a problem I wouldn't pay much attention the OLM. I remember seeing some under hood photos of one of your vehicles in the detail section several months back and the dust was unreal. I'm thinking a 3000 mile OCI would be my limit. JMO
As far as using PP 5W30 that would have been my choice. I would have told him to keep his oil.
Dust can be a problem, but I do not see how using thick oil would tackle it. Personally, I consider the air filter to be far more important than the oil filter, so I replace my air filters every 3,000 miles on all my vehicles. I never clean them, or wash them - worried it may affect their filtering ability, better safe than sorry. After 3,000 miles, the filter gets replaced.
At the moment I'm testing M1 0W-40 for 12,500 miles in my Montero, with an air filter change every 3,000 miles and 130 ml of ARX as a maintenance dose. At the 6,250 mile mark, I'm going to replace the oil filter as well and get a UO sample. I've already sent a virgin sample for analysis. Come 10,000 miles, I'm sending in another UO sample to see how the oil is holding up...especially with the mixed driving. A third UOA will be at 12,500 miles. It'll be interesting to see the effects of dusty weather and frequent air filter replacements.
My father and I both used this vehicle, and whilst his driving is pretty moderate, the truck has a steep axle ratio. You hit 75 MPH at 3,000 rpm. The engine sees anywhere between 3,500-5,500 rpm continually when I drive. So far, the engine seems to favour this oil compared to anything else that's been used before.
I don't think the thicker oil would help with dusty conditions that is why I agreed with your choice of the PP 5W30. What I don't agree with is the OLM in those conditions, without determining how accurate it is. Your frequent air filter changes will probably help. The UOA's will help determine if the OLM is taking a good "educated guess" or not. Once you've established how dependable the OLM is in your unique conditions then you can decide if you want to use it or not.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
[I'm just wondering about the Kuwait Desert vs. USA Nevada, Arizona, Texas as far as dust is concerned? My son told me the dust in that part of the world is unreal, I don't know so I'm asking.
The GM OLM takes an educated guess, but I would imagine it can't factor in dirt ingested into an engine in a hostile desert climate. I think if I lived in any area where dust was a problem I wouldn't pay much attention the OLM. I remember seeing some under hood photos of one of your vehicles in the detail section several months back and the dust was unreal. I'm thinking a 3000 mile OCI would be my limit. JMO
As far as using PP 5W30 that would have been my choice. I would have told him to keep his oil.
Dust can be a problem, but I do not see how using thick oil would tackle it. Personally, I consider the air filter to be far more important than the oil filter, so I replace my air filters every 3,000 miles on all my vehicles. I never clean them, or wash them - worried it may affect their filtering ability, better safe than sorry. After 3,000 miles, the filter gets replaced.
At the moment I'm testing M1 0W-40 for 12,500 miles in my Montero, with an air filter change every 3,000 miles and 130 ml of ARX as a maintenance dose. At the 6,250 mile mark, I'm going to replace the oil filter as well and get a UO sample. I've already sent a virgin sample for analysis. Come 10,000 miles, I'm sending in another UO sample to see how the oil is holding up...especially with the mixed driving. A third UOA will be at 12,500 miles. It'll be interesting to see the effects of dusty weather and frequent air filter replacements.
My father and I both used this vehicle, and whilst his driving is pretty moderate, the truck has a steep axle ratio. You hit 75 MPH at 3,000 rpm. The engine sees anywhere between 3,500-5,500 rpm continually when I drive. So far, the engine seems to favour this oil compared to anything else that's been used before.
I don't think the thicker oil would help with dusty conditions that is why I agreed with your choice of the PP 5W30. What I don't agree with is the OLM in those conditions, without determining how accurate it is. Your frequent air filter changes will probably help. The UOA's will help determine if the OLM is taking a good "educated guess" or not. Once you've established how dependable the OLM is in your unique conditions then you can decide if you want to use it or not.
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LSmonths back and the dust was unreal. I'm thinking a 3000 mile OCI would be my limit. JMO
As far as using PP 5W30 that would have been my choice. I would have told him to keep his oil.[/quote
Dust can be a problem, but I do not see how using thick oil would tackle it. Personally, I consider the air filter to be far more important than the oil filter, so I replace my air filters every 3,000 miles on all my vehicles. I never clean them, or wash them - worried it may affect their filtering ability, better safe than sorry. After 3,000 miles, the filter gets replaced.
At the moment I'm testing M1 0W-40 for 12,500 miles in my Montero, with an air filter change every 3,000 miles and 130 ml of ARX as a maintenance dose. At the 6,250 mile mark, I'm going to replace the oil filter as well and get a UO sample. I've already sent a virgin sample for analysis. Come 10,000 miles, I'm sending in another UO sample to see how the oil is holding up...especially with the mixed driving. A third UOA will be at 12,500 miles. It'll be interesting to see the effects of dusty weather and frequent air filter replacements.
My father and I both used this vehicle, and whilst his driving is pretty moderate, the truck has a steep axle ratio. You hit 75 MPH at 3,000 rpm. The engine sees anywhere between 3,500-5,500 rpm continually when I drive. So far, the engine seems to favour this oil compared to anything else that's been used before.
If you need to change your air filter every 3000 miles it must be very dusty. Dust will wear out an engine faster than anything, and will mean frequent oil changes. You likely have the same owners manual as NA owners get and hence the 5W30 oil recomendation. Keep in mind GM needs a year round oil recomendation for their vehicles from southern US to Northern Canada. One oil for year round use. We here know better of course. I would use the 20W50 without thinking twice. It's the oils viscoity at operating temp that is important and what it says on the bottle
An oil temperature shift of about 15F changes actual oil viscosity about the same as one full SAE grade at operating temperatures.
When you consider xW-20s tend to be on the high viscosity end of the SAE grade and xW-30s tend to be mid range or lower, the temp difference to make an xW-20 act like an xW-30 at operating temperatures is probably even less than 15F.
if you run M1 5W-20 and 10W-30 through a vis calculator. If you drop their 5W-20 from 100C to 90C (an 18F drop) it is the same viscosity as M1 10W-30 at 100C.
As far as using PP 5W30 that would have been my choice. I would have told him to keep his oil.[/quote
Dust can be a problem, but I do not see how using thick oil would tackle it. Personally, I consider the air filter to be far more important than the oil filter, so I replace my air filters every 3,000 miles on all my vehicles. I never clean them, or wash them - worried it may affect their filtering ability, better safe than sorry. After 3,000 miles, the filter gets replaced.
At the moment I'm testing M1 0W-40 for 12,500 miles in my Montero, with an air filter change every 3,000 miles and 130 ml of ARX as a maintenance dose. At the 6,250 mile mark, I'm going to replace the oil filter as well and get a UO sample. I've already sent a virgin sample for analysis. Come 10,000 miles, I'm sending in another UO sample to see how the oil is holding up...especially with the mixed driving. A third UOA will be at 12,500 miles. It'll be interesting to see the effects of dusty weather and frequent air filter replacements.
My father and I both used this vehicle, and whilst his driving is pretty moderate, the truck has a steep axle ratio. You hit 75 MPH at 3,000 rpm. The engine sees anywhere between 3,500-5,500 rpm continually when I drive. So far, the engine seems to favour this oil compared to anything else that's been used before.
If you need to change your air filter every 3000 miles it must be very dusty. Dust will wear out an engine faster than anything, and will mean frequent oil changes. You likely have the same owners manual as NA owners get and hence the 5W30 oil recomendation. Keep in mind GM needs a year round oil recomendation for their vehicles from southern US to Northern Canada. One oil for year round use. We here know better of course. I would use the 20W50 without thinking twice. It's the oils viscoity at operating temp that is important and what it says on the bottle
An oil temperature shift of about 15F changes actual oil viscosity about the same as one full SAE grade at operating temperatures.
When you consider xW-20s tend to be on the high viscosity end of the SAE grade and xW-30s tend to be mid range or lower, the temp difference to make an xW-20 act like an xW-30 at operating temperatures is probably even less than 15F.
if you run M1 5W-20 and 10W-30 through a vis calculator. If you drop their 5W-20 from 100C to 90C (an 18F drop) it is the same viscosity as M1 10W-30 at 100C.
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Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
I bet by now you wish he bought a Expedition or a Navigator.
All the dealers are probably the same way.
Your prabably right.
Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
I bet by now you wish he bought a Expedition or a Navigator.
All the dealers are probably the same way.
Your prabably right.
I guess a UOA needs to be done to answer the question of whether silicon in the oil is much of a problem. If you are using a Pureone or Ac Delco air filter changed regularly and maybe a pureone oil filter, I don't think sand would reduce the oil life that much.
I don't know much about the sand in Kuwait, but I lived at one time near the southwest and at the time on some dirt roads, sand roads really, and you would regularly drive through someone's cloud of dust, or the ocassional dust storm and it didn't appear to be a major problem with paper air filtration.
I don't know about the heat in Kuwait either but it gets very hot in the American southwest and I think PP 5W30 should be able to handle it no problem if you're not running engine too hard. That's what radiators are for I guess. GM thinks it will work and that's all that matters, or at least should matter to the goofy dealers there.
I don't know much about the sand in Kuwait, but I lived at one time near the southwest and at the time on some dirt roads, sand roads really, and you would regularly drive through someone's cloud of dust, or the ocassional dust storm and it didn't appear to be a major problem with paper air filtration.
I don't know about the heat in Kuwait either but it gets very hot in the American southwest and I think PP 5W30 should be able to handle it no problem if you're not running engine too hard. That's what radiators are for I guess. GM thinks it will work and that's all that matters, or at least should matter to the goofy dealers there.
Originally Posted By: Loobed
You are in Kuwait. What do you expect? It is not the USA.
Many dealerships in the US are just as bad. They use the wrong oil, they recommend a much shorter oil change interval, and they often break something under the hood and make you pay to get it fixed.
You are in Kuwait. What do you expect? It is not the USA.
Many dealerships in the US are just as bad. They use the wrong oil, they recommend a much shorter oil change interval, and they often break something under the hood and make you pay to get it fixed.
Originally Posted By: Tornado Red
Originally Posted By: Loobed
You are in Kuwait. What do you expect? It is not the USA.
Many dealerships in the US are just as bad. They use the wrong oil, they recommend a much shorter oil change interval, and they often break something under the hood and make you pay to get it fixed.
+1
Ain't that the truth!
Originally Posted By: Loobed
You are in Kuwait. What do you expect? It is not the USA.
Many dealerships in the US are just as bad. They use the wrong oil, they recommend a much shorter oil change interval, and they often break something under the hood and make you pay to get it fixed.
+1
Ain't that the truth!
I have a feeling under the Kuwait desert conditions a UOA is going to show the need for oil changes much more frequently than the OLM indicates. Sand will find its way into the engine in sandy, windy, desert areas. I would only run the best quality oil and air filters I could get.
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Well I guess it all depends on how fine the sand is and how fine the air filter filtration is. An air filter actually increase in efficiency after use for some time of course. I guess an UOA will tell the real tale. I'm not sure if GM makes exceptions to their OLM prediction for sandy conditions, but i think dusty conditions was a severe service. So it probably would be a good idea to change the oil a little sooner than the OLM predicts.
Like I said I lived in a very dusty area where vehicles drove through dust clouds pretty regularly and it wasn't the issue you might think. Paper filters were designed to catch sand in mind.
Like I said I lived in a very dusty area where vehicles drove through dust clouds pretty regularly and it wasn't the issue you might think. Paper filters were designed to catch sand in mind.
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Quick question. If you had oil-related failure during the warranty period, and GM cancelled the vehicle's warranty, I reckon the dealer would be required to provide coverage? Would this be a correct assumption?
No. Cancelled is cancelled, doesn't matter who cancels it (dealer, or manufacturer rep). The warranty is provided by the manufacturer, not the dealer.
The dealer gets reimbursed by the manufacturer to perform warranty repairs. If the warranty has been voided, you will get no "free" repairs at any of the dealers for any problems since your VIN has been tagged in the database (ie: Fords OASIS). You of course are more than welcome to bring your vehicle to the dealer and pay for the repairs yourself. =-)
Manufacturers also have in the fine print that any modifications to the vehicle are grounds to void the warranty. (be it hard parts, or software (ie: lowering springs, or power tuners)).
Alex.
Quick question. If you had oil-related failure during the warranty period, and GM cancelled the vehicle's warranty, I reckon the dealer would be required to provide coverage? Would this be a correct assumption?
No. Cancelled is cancelled, doesn't matter who cancels it (dealer, or manufacturer rep). The warranty is provided by the manufacturer, not the dealer.
The dealer gets reimbursed by the manufacturer to perform warranty repairs. If the warranty has been voided, you will get no "free" repairs at any of the dealers for any problems since your VIN has been tagged in the database (ie: Fords OASIS). You of course are more than welcome to bring your vehicle to the dealer and pay for the repairs yourself. =-)
Manufacturers also have in the fine print that any modifications to the vehicle are grounds to void the warranty. (be it hard parts, or software (ie: lowering springs, or power tuners)).
Alex.
Originally Posted By: GMGuy
Manufacturers also have in the fine print that any modifications to the vehicle are grounds to void the warranty. (be it hard parts, or software (ie: lowering springs, or power tuners)).
Void warranty? So they won't fix my radio if I lower the car? I don't think that is true in this country. Kuwait, I have no idea & it was interesting to read Falcon's "issues".
Manufacturers also have in the fine print that any modifications to the vehicle are grounds to void the warranty. (be it hard parts, or software (ie: lowering springs, or power tuners)).
Void warranty? So they won't fix my radio if I lower the car? I don't think that is true in this country. Kuwait, I have no idea & it was interesting to read Falcon's "issues".
Originally Posted By: benjamming
Originally Posted By: GMGuy
Manufacturers also have in the fine print that any modifications to the vehicle are grounds to void the warranty. (be it hard parts, or software (ie: lowering springs, or power tuners)).
Void warranty? So they won't fix my radio if I lower the car? I don't think that is true in this country. Kuwait, I have no idea & it was interesting to read Falcon's "issues".
No, they will void your entire suspension warranty and can refuse to work on your modifed car, so in essence you will not get it fixed under warranty eventhough it's technically covered. While it's not so prominent in North America, where there are plenty of dealers, places with very few dealers, like Kuwait, may have harder time justifying warranty expenses and getting their money back, therefore it's easier to just refuse work.
Originally Posted By: GMGuy
Manufacturers also have in the fine print that any modifications to the vehicle are grounds to void the warranty. (be it hard parts, or software (ie: lowering springs, or power tuners)).
Void warranty? So they won't fix my radio if I lower the car? I don't think that is true in this country. Kuwait, I have no idea & it was interesting to read Falcon's "issues".
No, they will void your entire suspension warranty and can refuse to work on your modifed car, so in essence you will not get it fixed under warranty eventhough it's technically covered. While it's not so prominent in North America, where there are plenty of dealers, places with very few dealers, like Kuwait, may have harder time justifying warranty expenses and getting their money back, therefore it's easier to just refuse work.
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Quote:
Void warranty? So they won't fix my radio if I lower the car? I don't think that is true in this country.
It is potentially possible. Depends on how hardline the dealer is.
A good example would be the voided diesel truck warranties due to use of tuners. Google should provide enough stories of warranty denial. So, yes, if it was during a period when dealers where looking for it specifically, and generating the noise about it, your example of a defective radio would fall into the denied catagory.
While your googling, check out Mitsubishi warranty denials due to unrelated modifactions (suspension primarily here).
And I think it is Mitsubishi, with one of their sport vehicles (and marketed as such) that if you exceed a certain rpm your warranty is void. So drive it like it was meant to be driven and the manufacturer is voiding your warranty due to "abuse" if its been flagged by the vehicles ecm.
Alex.
Void warranty? So they won't fix my radio if I lower the car? I don't think that is true in this country.
It is potentially possible. Depends on how hardline the dealer is.
A good example would be the voided diesel truck warranties due to use of tuners. Google should provide enough stories of warranty denial. So, yes, if it was during a period when dealers where looking for it specifically, and generating the noise about it, your example of a defective radio would fall into the denied catagory.
While your googling, check out Mitsubishi warranty denials due to unrelated modifactions (suspension primarily here).
And I think it is Mitsubishi, with one of their sport vehicles (and marketed as such) that if you exceed a certain rpm your warranty is void. So drive it like it was meant to be driven and the manufacturer is voiding your warranty due to "abuse" if its been flagged by the vehicles ecm.
Alex.
GMGuy,
But I could still return the GM vehicle w/in 60 days of purchase though right? Just kidding.
But I could still return the GM vehicle w/in 60 days of purchase though right? Just kidding.
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