Gen6 Camaro to be unveiled 5/16

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: GoobSoCold
I hope they move away from the "retro" instrument cluster/dash.

My 2SS has a color "Heads Up Display" which is obviously very modern and the first and only digital readout that I've liked. But I'd be surprised if they totally abandoned analog tach and speedo. I also like having an oil pressure gauge, voltmeter and other info. The interior is actually quite nice and I find the drivers seat to be very comfortable.


I also love that the Camaro has an oil temp gauge also.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Envy runs wild in this thread.

Always sad to see someone dissed for handing out facts. Overkill is well known for thoughtful, well-reasoned postings here and is definitely not a braggart. Facts as he offered are valuable perspective and run counter to the juvenile attacks based on opinions only.

Calling him names is about as crass as it gets, and confirms a lot of things we always talk about among ourselves.

I am NOT a Ford enthusiast yet even I recognize that the New Gen Stang is a great car for the moolah. And whether folks like it or not many of us actually care how our car performs and how we stack up in the stats and track times. Mentioning our own car is hardly an indictment of our character. But attacking that sure confirms things like envy and resentment...

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: horse123
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: horse123

The car isn't selling well. Every time I see one, a woman is behind the wheel.


Same with the Charger, I believe it's because the typical MUH UHMURICAN STEEEEEEEEL YEHHHH MERICA men that buy muscle cars tend to be Ford lovers (and understandably anyone with 2 brain cells hates Fiat) and don't care that the Mustang corners like the Titanic.


The Mustang hasn't been a poorly handling car since the S197 came about. And even the old SN95 new Edge with IRS wasn't bad.

Might as well give this a read:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/seda...age_first_test/



Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Actually, it is. It's always been behind the camaro in handling by quite a bit. Compared to the c it's not very good. Especially once you start comparing the ZL1/Z28 to the GT500.


Quite a bit? The GT500 was faster around the 'ring than the ZL1. Have you ever driven any of these cars or are you just showing more of your obvious bias? Both cars handle extremely well for their price range and are significantly faster than anything you or I own. What does your car lap the 'ring in? My 14 year old M5 did it in 8:20 and BOTH of those cars are faster than that by a significant margin (GT500 @ 7:39:28, ZL1 @ 7:41:2). My car handles well. These cars are better. So no, the Mustang doesn't corner like the Titanic, you just simply have no idea what you are talking about. Again.

You sound like a little kid making fun of cars the way you do. Once you get old enough/mature enough to get over your biases you might find that many of the vehicles you come down on are actually a lot of fun in the "real world".


+1. This is what happens when you hang out in your underwear in your parent(s) cellar
reading internet blather and magazine articles on the internet.
Then you go on a forum to spread your expertise in what you just read and bust balls about everything and anything you know absolutely nothing about.

For the money there is no car built in the world today that can touch either the Camero, Mustang or Challengers performance.
You have to go pretty far up the European food chain to even get close to the numbers these cars are capable of and spend at least 4x the price.
Forget the Japanese, sure some of them make some impressive numbers but lets face its its a friggin cracker box that sounds like a Singer sewing machine on steroids, when they back off the gas they sound like a movie theater popcorn maker.

The GTR is a great car but look at the price tag. The new Corvette is a super car slayer at a 1/3 the price.
American cars were always the world leader when it came to style and content for the money. The 70 and 80's and part of the 90's era were a dark era but they are long gone.
I have a lot of affection for Euro cars and American cars too, the American ones offer a lot of value and are easier to work on. I even like some Japanese cars, some of them really offer a lot of value and quality for the money and in the case of Subaru a seldom used engine design.

There isn't much in the AWD segment that can touch a Subaru for the money but you cant compare a muscle car to it. Thats not even an apples to oranges but more like a lawn chair to oranges example.

 

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted By: Trav
For the money there is no car built in the world today that can touch either the Camero, Mustang or Challengers performance.

My 2SS/RS convertible is my first foray into the 400+hp arena. I've added a typical bolton package and 50rwhp so that it now produces 424 at the wheels or about 480 vs factory ratings. In all honesty, it's all I can do to avoid a ticket with every outing. It has more power than is really useable on the street. I can't imagine 500, 600, and 700 hp although I completely support a [sort of] free market that allows auto manufacturers the freedom to build them and the public's right to buy what they want. Better get while the gettin's good. It can't last.

Re: the original subject, I am interested from an academic standpoint and I will be attending the event on Belle Isle but it will take an overwhelming dose of new car fever to get me out of my personal dream machine.

 

[morepwr]

I am looking forward to the next gen. From the spy shots I have seen it looks like the car still has the same basic body shape. I was hoping they would get a little farther from the current body. But I am looking forward to performance numbers with the new chassis and LT1 under the hood for sure!

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Trav
American cars were always the world leader when it came to style and content for the money. The 70 and 80's and part of the 90's era were a dark era but they are long gone.

If American cars were as good in the 70's and 80's as they are today Japanese cars could not be major players. American cars were so bad 30-40 years ago such that we had to limit imports from Japan in the form of quota and heavy tariff.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Trav
American cars were always the world leader when it came to style and content for the money. The 70 and 80's and part of the 90's era were a dark era but they are long gone.

If American cars were as good in the 70's and 80's as they are today Japanese cars could not be major players. American cars were so bad 30-40 years ago such that we had to limit imports from Japan in the form of quota and heavy tariff.


Japanese cars were junk in the 70's and early 80's too, but both really improved in the mid 80's. I think the biggest boost to American quality was fuel injection. There were some real standouts for the Japanese like the '86 Accord that really paved the way for them.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Trav
American cars were always the world leader when it came to style and content for the money. The 70 and 80's and part of the 90's era were a dark era but they are long gone.

If American cars were as good in the 70's and 80's as they are today Japanese cars could not be major players. American cars were so bad 30-40 years ago such that we had to limit imports from Japan in the form of quota and heavy tariff.


American small cars were junk. The larger cars were pretty decent usually (like the Town Car and its ilk, even the Mustang).

The Japanese cornered the small car market and built quite the repertoire from there.

Just my take on it.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

If American cars were as good in the 70's and 80's as they are today Japanese cars could not be major players. American cars were so bad 30-40 years ago such that we had to limit imports from Japan in the form of quota and heavy tariff.

Japanese cars were junk in the 70's and early 80's too, but both really improved in the mid 80's. I think the biggest boost to American quality was fuel injection. There were some real standouts for the Japanese like the '86 Accord that really paved the way for them.

If Japanese cars were junk in the 70's and early 80's then why do we had quota on Japanese import in early 80's ?

1986 Accord was a standout at that year especially the fuel injector LX-I, I remember that to get that car most buyers had to pay up to $4-5k above MSRP and wait several months. Before that 1981-1982 Accord was hot selling too, and almost no dealer had any for sale, to get 1 buyer had to order and the price was about $1-2k above MSRP. Mainly because of the quota.

1990-1994 Toyota Supra was very good too, it was fairly difficult to find 1 because of limited supply, the effect of quota.

PS Article about Japanese quota of the 80's

"The quotas were imposed in response to pleas by the U.S. auto industry that it needed time to grow strong enough to compete with the imports on the free market"

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/1985/02/the-costly-truth-about-auto-import-quotas

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

If Japanese cars were junk in the 70's and early 80's then why do we had quota on Japanese import in early 80's ?


The Japanese government was subsidizing the manufacturers allowing them to dump their cars here for less than what they cost to manufacture.

 

[Trav]

True enough but once Lincoln started messing around and came out with the Versailles it was a turning point for the worse.
Up to that time Ford had done a pretty good job of giving its clones a unique identity, eg 73 LTD, Grand Marquis and Town car. They were clones but still different enough.

Still your right they were not bad cars. But IMHO 73 was probably the last year for anything halfway decent coming out of the big 3 for many years.
After that even if the some of the bodies remained the engines got less and less powerful. The 76 Eldorado conv was for me one of the nicest Cadillacs of all time but the once powerful 400 HP 8.2 ltr was badly neutered to 190 HP and the body was even larger.
GM really shot themselves in the arse doing the same thing with the Cimmaron and the HT engines.

IMHO the 429, 472 and 500 was the last great true Cadillac engines not shared with any other division.
Lincoln made one of the nicest cars in the world bar non in 56/57 with the Mark II and once the era of the suicide door Lincolns was over it was downhill and has never really recovered its status.
Its almost like the Americans forgot how to build real cars overnight. As we all can see thats changing and it it wont be long before they are competitive again on the cars own merits.

Quote:
Continentals for 1956 were among the most expensive cars in the world — with a cost of $10,000 at a time when a regular Ford could be had for less than $2000,[citation needed] it rivaled Rolls-Royce. Ford believed that its price point would elevate the car's status among those who could afford the very best. Despite its astronomical price tag, Ford Motors lost money on each one sold.[7] On a side note, Cadillac suffered a similar financial loss with its own Continental rival, the four-door Eldorado Brougham.[8] Vehicles such as these were image builders for the two companies


Just my worthless

 

[Cujet]

I enjoy renting the current generation Camaro.

However, at the local racetrack (Palm Beach Intl Raceway) (previously Moroso) the Camaro seems to be a good bit behind in the 1/4 mile game. It's simply too heavy to compete with other modern cars.

The supercharged, super expensive, Camaro runs 12's. About the same as a stock C6 or C7 Vette. The Standard SS runs high 13's with most drivers. Compared to the new Mustang, which breaks into the 12's.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Indydriver
When I took delivery of mine, the one thing I wanted to improve was throttle response. I thought the stock setup was a bit mushy. After a typical suite of boltons (long tube headers into stock dual-mode catback, cold air intake, ported throttle body and dynotune), I am thrilled with the power and response of this car. These mods add 50 rwhp and dramatically improved throttle response which improves the driveability magnificently. I love getting in this car in a way I've never felt about any other.


Of course, the bolt-ons work, BUT, could some of that lack of response have been due to the 'drive by wire TB lag', even on the pure stock car??

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
My 4th-Gen was built in Oshawa and has been an amazingly reliable car, considering that I beat it like a rented mule. 227k miles and counting...

Same here. I can't think of another car in it's price range new that will take the beating that any of my F-bodies have endured.
[/quote]

+3

Mine has taken every bit of 180K+ miles of daily driving in EVERY/ANY/ALL conditions, open tracking, and heaps of 'abuse' (albeit well maintained abuse

), without having EVER been kept in a garage, with very little ever having gone wrong, or ANYTHING major having to be replaced/rebuilt.

So much for the GM/domestic 'unreliability' and 'poor build quality' that all of the import nameplate ONLY types rant about (and this on one of their supposedly "worst built" cars). LOL

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
1990-1994 Toyota Supra was very good too, it was fairly difficult to find 1 because of limited supply, the effect of quota.


The MKIVs were not limited because of any "quotas", or tariffs, but because the Nippon Giant did not build very many due to lack of demand.
Yes, despite it's rep/image (the TT MKIV that is) as being worth A LOT more than what they were asking for it, I guess enthusiasts at that time were unwilling to pay $40k-$65k for a 'Toyota'.

Trust me on this, they did not limit production to create a loss leading, low volume, flagship/supacar, and IF it would have sold (and had the later to come ricer worship/deification right from the get-go, although most of them could NEVER EVER afford one!) they would have built as many as they could to sell (as ANY mass production company would, but THEM much more so), even if it meant them building new production plants in the land of the rising sun to meet the demand.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

If Japanese cars were junk in the 70's and early 80's then why do we had quota on Japanese import in early 80's ?


The Japanese government was subsidizing the manufacturers allowing them to dump their cars here for less than what they cost to manufacture.


^^^THANK YOU!!

SOOOO many on here (and in this country in general) either fail to acknowledge this fact, or turn a blind eye to it to suit their needs/worldviews, all the while condemning domestic manufacturers (AND OUR 'gummint') for the same type of (or even lesser) 'offenses'.

 

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
When I took delivery of mine, the one thing I wanted to improve was throttle response. I thought the stock setup was a bit mushy. After a typical suite of boltons (long tube headers into stock dual-mode catback, cold air intake, ported throttle body and dynotune), I am thrilled with the power and response of this car. These mods add 50 rwhp and dramatically improved throttle response which improves the driveability magnificently. I love getting in this car in a way I've never felt about any other.


Of course, the bolt-ons work, BUT, could some of that lack of response have been due to the 'drive by wire TB lag', even on the pure stock car??

I don't know the answer to your question but the boltons cured it while the drive-by-wire remains. On the Camaro boards, many credit the ported throttle body with the improved response but I suspect the dyno tune also contributed. The difference is night and day. If you rented an SS then drove my car, you wouldn't believe the improvement.

 

[donnyj08]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Trav
American cars were always the world leader when it came to style and content for the money. The 70 and 80's and part of the 90's era were a dark era but they are long gone.

If American cars were as good in the 70's and 80's as they are today Japanese cars could not be major players. American cars were so bad 30-40 years ago such that we had to limit imports from Japan in the form of quota and heavy tariff.


I do agree with this, American cars in the 70's and 80's were a joke. They had the ability to do better, but didn't. IMO the First decent American Car to be built starting in the Late 80's was the EFI 5.0HO mustang. I still see those cars running up and down the road with lots of hard miles. I don't even think the Corvette was a decent car until about 1997 when the C5 was introduced. I was never impressed with the Tuned port or LT1 Vettes. I always wanted a tuned port Iroc Camaro, but they just weren't built as well as a Foxbody Mustang IMO. Modern American Cars are just as good as anything on the road IMO. They are just as reliable as anything from Germany, and they are not far off of the Japanese stuff. American pony cars offer a ton of performance and reliability for relatively little money.

 

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted By: donnyj08
Modern American Cars are just as good as anything on the road IMO.


The Oshawa (Canada) line that Gen5 Camaros are built on was state-of-the-art when designed and built ca. 2008. Robotic body assembly with sealants everywhere plus a proud and conscientious workforce has produced a high percentage of reliable, quality vehicles. The U.S. UAW at LGR has a high bar to meet.